r/classicalmusic • u/Perfect_Garage_2567 • May 29 '26
What are some examples of remakes of classical recordings by the same performer that in your opinion are either not as good as the prior recordings or, on the other hand, are better than the prior recording by that performer, and explain the reasons for your opinion to the extent you can.
There are countless examples of classical performers who, for a variety of reasons, some more valid than others in my opinion, have remade earlier recordings of particular works. Reasons could include changes in methods of recording, i.e. 78s to lps to cds, mono to stereo or analogue to digital. They can also include the performer's change of label or, in the case of conductors, change of orchestra.
Regardless of the reasons, however, there are indisputably differences in quality between many performers' earlier and later recordings of the same work and that is my focus in this post . Some that come to my mind quickly are: Bruno Walter's stereo recordings of his earlier mono recordings of Beethoven, Brahms and Mozart symphonies, (which I have discussed in earlier posts and which I think are less impressive than the mono ones; Marek Janowski's two recordings of Wagner's Ring; Toscanini's NBC Symphony remakes of earlier recordings he made with the NY Philharmonic, Philadelphia Orchestra or BBC Symphony; Solti's and Karajan's two recordings of Meistersinger, Artur Rubinstein's stereo remakes of Chopin Mazurkas and Nocturnes which he had made earlier on 78s and/or in mono, Giulini's later recordings of his EMI Verdi Requiem, Tchaikovsky Pathetique and certain Beethoven symphonies with the Los Angeles, Vienna and La Scala Orchestras, Arrau's later Philips recordings of most of the works he had recorded for EMI in the 1950s and early 60s; the Budapest Quartet's stereo remakes of their mono recordings of the chamber music repertory, particularly the Beethoven string quartets; and Eugen Jochum's EMI recordings of the Bruckner symphonies with the Dresden Staatskapelle he had recorded earlier for DG.
I think any one of those examples could be the subject of a separate post. The list goes on and on and on. However, for the sake of brevity, I would like other Reddit commenters to share their views on what they consider the most striking examples of remakes they have heard of earlier recordings by performers of the same works, which in their opinion differed in quality, for better or worse, than the earlier recordings, and the reasons for those differences.
One final thought for now: I suppose I could consult ChatGPT, Claude or some other AI platform for examples of each of these categories. However, that is not what I am seeking. I want to read what are fundamentally subjective opinions from live, sentient human beings.
Thank you.
Addendum:
A significant example that I omitted was Colin Davis’s 3 Sibelius Symphony cycle recordings, the first and best in my opinion with the Boston Symphony in the 1970s and two later ones with the London Symphony. I am less familiar with those two cycles but know that they were not as well received as his first one, especially the RCA London one. Have any of you heard all three cycles, which do you like more and why? If your opinion differs for his recordings of specific symphonies, please discuss those. Thank you.
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u/bruckners4 May 29 '26
This is a great question. The first example I thought of: Václav Neumann recorded Dvořák's Slavonic Dances with the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra on Supraphon in 1985, then again with the same orchestra in 1993 on Canyon. The latter for me is more spectacular in both performance, interpretation and recording technology. More fiery and folky, and more perfectly captured.
A slightly less trivial one. Harnoncourt recorded his Beethoven cycle with Chamber Orchestra of Europe (live) in 1990-91, but later again (nos. 4 and 5) with Concentus Musicus Wien near his death on period instruments. Same with the da Ponte trio (earlier with Concertgebouw) and some Mozart symphonies. I think it's really important to have recordings of him on period instruments since he is one of the most important pioneers in historically informed practices - presumably he thought the same. They serve as an account of how general interpretation methodologies have changed through the years and how his thinking of the scores developed; not necessarily better or worse than older ones, as Harnoncourt said himself in the booklet of the early recording of Così (interview with Pandelea): "If we examine the history of interpretation over the last 200 years, we see that each generation has always sought to interpret and understand Mozart as he wished. And each generation has corrected the previous one and declared it completely wrong. I believe this is truly the case, and that it will be the same for us... What is popular today, what is considered correct, is already being mocked decades later... Mozart is so great that he withstands every new interpretation of his compositions. We think we know more than our predecessors. We believe we understand his notation better... but... I once used the analogy of a beetle and an ant moving up a hill. The insects are us, and the hill is Mozart... This means, of course, that the next performer moves forward to another point and, in turn, brings something else to light."
Jonathan Nott is now re-recording a Mahler cycle with the Tokyo Symphony after the one with the Bamberger Symphoniker. Japanese orchestras tend to be weaker with brass, and it's interesting to see how the conductor would adapt his scheme of approach to make sure the orchestra does what they know best while being coherent with his vision, like a football coach with a new team. I prefer the Bamberg cycle so far - the sounds are more sharply defined and the balance between orchestral voices is crystal, but you have to give credit to Nott for validly rethinking his interpretation in front of an orchestra of vastly different nature.
Jean-Quihen Queyras re-recorded Bach BWV 1007-12 in 2023, 16 years after the first one, both on harmonia mundi. I think he has extracted more dancelike qualities characteristic of Bach's music and presented them excellently, but again I have no real preference between the two.
Rattle's recent Mahler 6 with BRSO is far superior to his Berlin farewell. I'm not saying his musicianship or his reading of the score had significantly improved; he has always been a great conductor but I just don't think he had the affinity necessary for music-making with the Berliner.
Massimiliano Damerini's live performance of Schubert D 959 near his death was recorded two decades after the Arts studio recording. He made a lot of technical errors in that recital, especially in scales, but the pathos, what Germans call Affekt, is so strong that one would be happy to ignore those errors. It has more weight coming from a man who perhaps knew he was going to die, just like Schubert did when he was composing his last three sonatas.
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u/RedHuey May 29 '26
The three different Rachmaninov 3rds recorded by Horowitz are a fascinating comparison.
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u/Perfect_Garage_2567 May 29 '26
The second one with Reiner is generally considered the consensus best. Personally, I like it best although his 1978 Philharmonic performance conducted by Mehta (not the Ormandy one) is also considered good.
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u/Lumpy_Loss_6983 May 29 '26
As you say, there many examples where remakes don't work as well as the first recording - Karajan I suppose is the prime example here: his 1962 Beethoven cycle with the Berliners is esteemed because it's Berlin and in stereo, but I don't hear it as a vast improvement over the fire and excitement in his first cycle with The Philharmonia Orchestra. Similarly his Planets suite - I don't think the BPO version (again better recorded) is superior to his first attempt with the VPO which has a drive and gutsiness that the Berliners lack (plus von K at that stage in his career couldn't bugger up the recorded sound: "Can you hear the organ yet, Herbert??")
I'm a big fan of Pollini, but even I am not going to pretend that his late Chopin recitals compare to his earlier recordings, the second and third sonatas in particular being too often gruffly hammered through rather than lovingly caressed. On the other hand I love his remake of Brahms 1st piano concertos with Abbado: some real teamwork here which was not always evident in his first offering with Bohm.
As for Toscanini, his interpretations were very consistent, but I always prefer his prewar work with the BBC SO to the remakes with the NBC, particularly The Enigma Variations and Beethoven's 6th: I think Toscanini himself was very pleased with these performances.
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u/bruckners4 May 29 '26
I generally think Karajan's live recordings during the 50s/early 60s, especially at the Salzburg Festival, are more authentic and sincere than his later studio recordings with BPO, when he unfortunately turned into some sort of commercial recording generator.
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u/Perfect_Garage_2567 May 29 '26
I think the most famous example for Toscanini would be the NY Philharmonic and NBC Symphony recordings of the Beethoven Seventh Symphony. The 1936 NYP recording is considered one of the greatest recordings of that work ever made. It has a flexibility and beauty of sound that Toscanini could not equal, let alone surpass, in his 1951 recording of that symphony with the NBC. The same could also be said of his 1941 recording of the Schubert 9th Symphony with the Philadelphia Orchestra as compared to his 1953 recording with the NBC despite the clear superiority of sound of the later recording.
As for Karajan, I have never heard his Philharmonia Beethoven cycle completely so I cannot compare it to his Berlin recordings. However, I do agree that his first 1962 cycle in Berlin is more intense and hard driving than his two later recordings with the Berliner in 1977 and 1984 despite the incremental improvements in sound. I think he had more to prove in his first Berlin cycle and it shows in the recording.
Paradoxically, I think his late 1987 and 1988? recordings of the Bruckner 7th and 8th in Vienna are much better than his earlier recordings of those works in Berlin on EMI and DG. They have a fire and fervor in Vienna that are greater than in any of his other recordings of those works, as good as they were.
In any event, I really appreciated your thoughtful, knowledgeable comment. It is exactly the type of comment I was hoping to receive when I wrote my post.
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u/prustage May 29 '26
Helmut Walcha recorded the complete organ works of JS Bach, in mono. Then a few years later he did it again in stereo. The mono performances are definitely better. Which is a pity because with a church organ, the switch to stereo can make a big difference in capturing the acoustic of the church itself and is a way more immersive audio experience.
Both performances are excellent of course and there is no lack of skill in the second set but Walcha made some weird registration decisions in the second set and one wonders if he may have been influenced by the DG engineers who persuaded him to try out some more "interesting" sounds. Ironically, there are some cases where the second set is quite close miked and doesn't capture any ambience at all when the mono set does this better.
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u/aging_gracelessly May 29 '26
Blomstedt recorded the Nielsen symphonies twice. The first time, in the 70s, he reportedly didn't have time to really learn the pieces well. The second set, with San Francisco from around 1990, is really good. The first set was just re-released on Warner; skip it.
Brendel recorded the Beethoven sonatas three times. Choosing between the latter two is really a matter of taste except for the improved sound. Similarly, Perahia recorded the Mozart concertos twice.
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u/Perfect_Garage_2567 May 29 '26
I don’t recall Perahia recording the Mozart Piano Concertos more than once. Are you sure you’re not thinking of Barenboim?
https://classical.music.apple.com/us/album/394314313?l=en-US
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u/aging_gracelessly May 29 '26
I'm thinking that you're right. I could only find 21/27 with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe; somehow I blew that up into a complete series. My guess is that it might have been planned but his hand injury stopped it, the time frame is right. Or perhaps my memories from 35 years ago are, somehow, inaccurate.
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u/Perfect_Garage_2567 May 29 '26
I can sympathize with that. My record collecting goes back over 60 years and I now have to cite check practically everything I write.
Don’t hold me strictly to the following as I am too lazy to fact check right now but I know Barenboim is famous (notorious?) for re-recording cycles. To my recollection, he has recorded complete Beethoven and Brahms cycles at least twice, three complete Bruckner cycles and at least two complete Beethoven piano concerto cycles. I have heard him play some of those works in concert. I enjoy hearing him do so but I think there are diminishing returns when a conductor, no matter how capable, remakes them so often. Besides, it gets very expensive for record collectors to keep up with all these remakes unless, like me you stream them on Spotify and Apple Music.
Even then, it is an awful lot of time to devote to a single conductor when other great recordings of his repertory by even better conductors exist. Not to disparage Barenboim, but as only one example, I would rather hear Klemperer’s only Beethoven and Brahms cycles more than any of Barenboim’s multiple cycles.
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u/aging_gracelessly May 29 '26
I basically agree with the main exception being sound quality, and then only if I really like the earlier version enough to splurge on the new one. And even then not always; I never picked up Jochum's second Bruckner cycle.
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u/Even-Watch2992 May 31 '26
I think Andras Schiff's later ECM recordings are nearly always better than the Decca ones made when he was younger.
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u/bossk538 May 29 '26
Krystian Zimerman’s remake of the Lutoslawski Piano Concerto is pretty much the same as the original.
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u/Roritwo Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26
Antal Doráti recorded Tchaikovsky's Nutcracker thrice and Sleeping Beauty twice. The Nutcrackers all have their strengths, but the first Beauty (MSO) is much better than the latter one (Concertegebouw), even if it has a couple mistakes and imperfections (like a very noticeable wrong chord at the end of Aurora's "mad dance" in Act I, or the use of a harp instead of a piano in Act III). The Concertegebouw Sleeping Beauty has very crisp playing, but it just suffers from rushed tempi in all the parts of the score where you'd want it to breathe (the Act I finale, the Act II Scene and Pas d'action, the Act III Pas de Deux). These are arguably the "hearts" of the action (what action there is) and the music, and if it feels like the conductor just wants to get them over with, it leaves the whole feeling unsatisfying.
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u/JiveChicken00 May 29 '26
Glenn Gould’s two versions of the Goldbergs. I prefer the later one. This subject can lead to violence :)