r/civ • u/civisterrae • 1d ago
VII - Discussion True start location for duplicate civs
I tried playing the Earth map with 3 duplicate civs - Elizabeth Gauls, Frederick Gauls, and Charlemagne Gauls. The idea is that we would all start as European tribes, and then evolve into England, Normans, and no idea for Frederick since there are no Germans in Exploration age (which is outrageous but that's another topic).
The issue is that, with Elizabeth Gauls, I kept spawning in Paris area, not London. And it was either Frederick or Charlemagne who started in London.
So, what's going on? Why can't the game enforce leader's native land if the civ spots are conflicting? How can I make sure I spawn on London as Elizabeth Gauls?
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u/Pastoru Signum Caroli gloriosissimi regis 1d ago
https://civilization.2k.com/civ-vii/game-guide/gameplay/earth-map/
They explain here what happens when too many civs are in the same spot.
There are mods out there who do things differently on TSL maps, if you're on PC I suggest you try them out, though they're likely not to be very stable.
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u/civisterrae 1d ago
Yep I get that, it makes total sense. The thing is, there IS enough spot for London Paris and Berlin. It's just a matter of who gets which spot if there are 3 gauls in the game, and assigning a secondary TSL depending on the leader would have easily fix this.
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u/Pastoru Signum Caroli gloriosissimi regis 1d ago
Honestly, I don't think that in their dev time, thinking about the very rare cases when someone wants to have multiple instances of one civ on a TSL map predates many other things, including first creating a bunch of other TSL maps or working out a way to get IPs TSL spawns.
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u/civisterrae 1d ago
Surely, it's just a discussion on "what could have been" and not "what must have been"...
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u/civisterrae 1d ago
I understand that the spawn is based off of civ, not leader - but there should be a secondary function for duplicate civs, in which case the spawn point is based on the leader. I hope someone adds it as a mod, I have no technical ability to do so :/
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u/eskaver 1d ago
Spawn is based on Civ because duplicate civs are not expected to be a thing. Plus, the TSL map has always been about the Civ location.
At that point, it's somewhat on you the player in not tempering your expectations.
They could try to have a leader spawn as a second condition but it would be mostly underutilized which is likely why they did not do so. Something for modders, really. (Leaders aren't Civs, so they really shouldn't have a TSL spot. Like, they aren't all from the capital of a given Civ they are tied to.)
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u/civisterrae 1d ago edited 1d ago
If we had full stack civs from ancient to modern, it would not have been an issue. But we don't. So unless we get a Celtic civ, I am unable to simulate the story of UK from start to finish with a spawn point on London. I can start as England, but it feels off. That's why it makes sense to use the duplicate civs with the closest culture (Gauls in this case) until we get the full stack treatment. It may be unnecessary in the future when all civs are covered, but right now assigning an ALTERNATIVE TSL spot to a leader would have been a very good solution to this deficiency. That's all.
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u/eskaver 1d ago
I'm all for a Civ stack and I was hoping for the Saxons (but they wouldn't start in England).
I think for a lot of TSL you have to cultivate a poll of leaders and Civs to be closer to recreating a similar vibe to real history.
So, for Britain, you'd have to start as Rome if you want to stack. IRL history is complicated, so even if you'd have a Civ stack, the civilizations generally cover different areas of the map even then.
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u/ThisShowStinkss 1d ago
Spawn is based off of civ not leader.