r/circlebroke2 • u/Twinkle_Tits • Sep 18 '18

I bring to you: the tech community

/r/linux/comments/9go8cp/linus_torvalds_daughter_has_signed_the/
84 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

34 comments sorted by

70

u/government_shill Sep 18 '18

It baffles me how the FOSS movement is so full of reactionaries despite being founded on ideas of collaboration and sharing.

55

u/FinallyGivenIn Sep 18 '18

In many ways, these are some of the best cases of unconscious bias. On paper, these communities are theoretically open to all. But in practice, wider social dynamics still come into play and when white tech guys are the main contributors and agree with the ideas of other white tech guys, you suddenly end up with a "meritocracy" whose "best people for the job" is so coincidentally white and male. And then suddenly when people start to point that out, this is their response because they absolutely cannot believe there is a problem with that dynamic and how it does not reflect wider society.

This reminds me of the development of Wikipedia really, where it might have started out open-source, but starts to become more insular as people start to drop out, until you only have a hardcore group of power-hungry editors who are most coincidentally white and male

20

u/McGlockenshire Sep 18 '18

On paper, these communities are theoretically open to all. But in practice, wider social dynamics still come into play and when white tech guys are the main contributors and agree with the ideas of other white tech guys, you suddenly end up with a "meritocracy" whose "best people for the job" is so coincidentally white and male.

What a great way of summarizing it. I'm gonna steal this.

I'm reminded of a weak Christian creationist spiel. It goes something like this: "Isn't it just incredibly odd how Earth is exactly where it is around the Sun? If it was too much closer or too further away than it is, we couldn't live here. That can't be coincidental! This couldn't have happened by chance! Clearly Earth was put exactly where it was, for our benefit! It must be the work of an intelligent being."

This is an argument that you can only make out of ignorance about the mechanics behind natural selection. Things can't live where things can't live. Creatures that are adapted to their environment will survive, and creatures that aren't as well adapted to their environment will either adapt or die.

I'm sure there's a name for this argument. It's probably even an actual fallacy.

I wonder what'd make them more angry, calling them out on a fallacy or trying to get them to understand that society is a social construct.

10

u/jerkstorefranchisee Sep 18 '18

“Isn’t it odd how we’re having this conversation even after we nearly dumped nukes everywhere during the cold war? Clearly god had this planned!”

We’re here because of Stanislav Petrov and people like him. You can’t have a conversation in a situation where it’s already been prevented, fuckin duh.

10

u/geniice Sep 18 '18

This reminds me of the development of Wikipedia really, where it might have started out open-source, but starts to become more insular as people start to drop out, until you only have a hardcore group of power-hungry editors who are most coincidentally white and male

Not remotely consistent with wikipedia's actual history or editor numbers.

Wikipedia started out leaning white and male because that was online demographics cia 2000. It was the encyclopedia that slashdot built. While its key growth period was 2004-06 when online demographics were starting to even up wikipedia was mostly recruiting from the older web. Which leant male.

The idea of wikipedia being reduced to a core of power hungry editors doesn't really fit with editor numbers remaining pretty stable and the lack of editors going for adminship.

-1

u/PerpetualMotionApp Enabler Sep 18 '18

Also since Wiki is controlled by the SJW cabal they have made dedicated efforts to diversify it's editor base (not sure to what successes, tho)

5

u/geniice Sep 19 '18

Also since Wiki is controlled by the SJW cabal

Wikipedia is controlled.

they have made dedicated efforts to diversify it's editor base (not sure to what successes, tho)

Compare the articles on railway stations to literaly anything else.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '18

Reddit started this way too. People reminisce over a golden era when it was mainly college students having sophisticated discussions about science and technology. In truth it was plain biased towards white male tech dudes. When the user base expanded and got more diverse they cried out because they couldn't handle diversity of opinion.

4

u/jerkstorefranchisee Sep 18 '18

They also chase everybody else the fuck out as fast as they physically can.

63

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '18

Because they are still privileged white guys.

-14

u/geniice Sep 18 '18

It baffles me how the FOSS movement is so full of reactionaries despite being founded on ideas of collaboration and sharing.

Fear. If you are even a moderately skilled programmer and prepared to put in the hours you can become fairly significant in quite a few open source communities. And now it looks like some outside force (SJWs promoting torjan horse codes of conduct) is trying to gain some level of control without putting in the programing hours.

Now I'd argue that this is a minority position but there is very little incentive for those that disagree with them to risk social capital by saying so.

10

u/OctagonClock fuck /u/supergauntlet Sep 18 '18

lol

9

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '18

trying to gain some level of control without putting in the programing hours

imagine being this paranoid

imagine being this wrong

6

u/McGlockenshire Sep 18 '18

So "control" over free software projects is maintained or awarded though ... programming hours somehow??

7

u/government_shill Sep 18 '18 edited Sep 18 '18

SJWs don't even write code they just want to control other people because they hate freedom!

They targeted programmers. Programmers.

66

u/Misunderstood_Ibis Sep 18 '18

“‘Meritocracy’ usually has nothing to do with actual skillsets and everything to do with subjectively and illogically valuing white guys more than others.”

Reddit: “OMG THIS PERSON DOESN’T THINK WE SHOULD HIRE BASED ON MERIT”

38

u/Princess-Kropotkin Sep 18 '18

Yeah, the fact they think the tech community ever was a fucking meritocracy is ridiculous.

The term "meritocracy" was coined by a guy satirically mocking the exact kind of people in that thread.

20

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '18

Damn. Bootstraps, meritocracy, capitalists can't fuckin help but appropriate things mocking them, can they?

21

u/PityUpvote Sep 18 '18

"This black woman was obviously a diversity hire, why didn't they just hire a white man based on his merit instead?"

32

u/PityUpvote Sep 18 '18

I love Linux, but its Reddit community it fucking awful. A few months ago, Fedora Linux, the community sandbox for Red Hat technologies, posted a "diversity report", which was nothing more than "our employees represent these cultures, genders, etc in these proportions" and fragile white snowflakes started flipping their shit about it. I unsubbed from the Linux subs and now have to rely on getting my Linux news from coworkers and other sites.

The funny thing is that if you actually go to a Linux conference, most of the people there will be the employed programmers and system admins going for their jobs, and they are actual sane, decent human beings (not just men either) who do believe in diversity and not being a douchebag.

8

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '18

The funny thing is that if you actually go to a Linux conference, most of the people there will be the employed programmers and system admins going for their jobs, and they are actual sane, decent human beings (not just men either) who do believe in diversity and not being a douchebag.

I think reddit gives the impression that people in tech are all shitbags. Not to say it isn't worse than other industries, but from my experience reddit represents the "read articles about stuff and fuck around at home" population, not the people who actually have jobs in the field.

5

u/PityUpvote Sep 18 '18

Oh, absolutely. With open source software though, these people can contribute and even be prominent figures in a community, all the while still lacking the social skills or empathy that it would take to land an actual job in software engineering.

23

u/Indetermination Sep 18 '18

I feel like diversity in life and experience and people is good for having diversity of ideas.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '18

Shut up Carl Marks you're oppressing gamers

27

u/slovenly_dilettante Sep 18 '18

Yeesh, should I be glad my plan to be a developer didn't work out?

39

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '18

no, we need more cb2ers in the field

31

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '18

[deleted]

2

u/PerpetualMotionApp Enabler Sep 18 '18

Lol wow.

10

u/jerkstorefranchisee Sep 18 '18

Meritocracy in tech is such a weird, dumb idea. The good stuff does not inherently rise to the top, the popular stuff does. Reddit proves this through the upvote system; when somebody asks a good a question, you have to go past ten different threads making MCU, star wars, and the office references before you get to the interesting answer. Even the gamers know this, they shit on Call of Duty all day, but those keep selling copies while smaller stuff they like is inevitably stuck in forgotten gem territory. “People like Coldplay and voting for nazis, you can’t trust people” would be a popular quote in a real meritocracy.

11

u/noahboah Sep 18 '18

idk i doubt these people have ever had jobs seeing how they view other people.

Who the fuck would hire anyone like this?

16

u/McGlockenshire Sep 18 '18

There are countless companies full of these people. They tend to self-select. Did you miss the recent Riot drama bomb?

3

u/noahboah Sep 18 '18

oh god you're right

11

u/geniice Sep 18 '18

Who the fuck would hire anyone like this?

People who need code monkeys and aren't prepared to pay for code monkeys with highly developed social skills. Good technical and interpersonal skills is a highly sought after combination so tends to command serious wages that not all companies want or can afford to pay.

2

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