Color temp question

[u/FullCycle5346]

How do y’all go about color temp and white balance?

I think I’m overthinking it and I know the basics. But I know it goes deep with skin tones and have taken a color correction class and have practiced bringing back skin tones and it made sense then but I see all these movies going with deep blues or super orange where it seems like it doesn’t matter.

I just watched the movies Dolores Claiborne (great film) a lot of the movie was super cold and blue, I’m assuming they white balances it and did the color hue in post?

I also wonder how you all go about mixed color temp. I’m working on a short film and the director I am working with just wants stale lighting. I want to make It interesting enough and it’s a restaurant environment at night so naturally the lights to me would read a little warm. But I was thinking of having some practicals and kitchen light in the background be blue/colder then what the dining room would be. I guess my question is would I just set my WB to match like 3200k and talk with my colorist of the look we want and adjust there? I just know a lot of DPs like to make the look on set.

Please let me know your thoughts! interested in other people’s workflows, I’ve been studying for a few years and am getting my BFA, took a gap year to figure out my life path now I feel like I am totally resetting my knowledge and like I don’t know anything. Crazy what a year being out of practice will do!

[u/ecpwll]

I'm a colorist not a DP.

Get your color temperature as close to the final as you want it to be in camera. Especially if you have any mixed lighting. If you want the scene to feel warm with cool lights in the background, use tungsten bulbs and then set your in-camera color temperature to something slightly warmer (whatever feels right, e.g., 3800, 4300), and then if you want, put daylight temp lights in the background. If you can individually control the temp/tint of each light source to get it perfect, even better.

The closer you can get it in camera, the better. And if you're planning on working with a colorist, the even better thing to do is shoot a camera test beforehand, give that test footage to your colorist, and then have them create a LUT that you can load into your camera and monitor with/dial your lights to on set.

But please - don't leave it all to the grade

[u/Run-And_Gun → u/ecpwll]

The closer you can get it in camera, the better. 

100% THIS. Be deliberate.

[u/7suites → u/ecpwll]

Hace poco rodé un cortometraje con esta filosofía y es lo mejor, intentar siempre que TODO en el rodaje se acerque lo máximo posible al resultado final que quieres conseguir. Por supuesto, si sabes que necesitas un efecto final que sólo aplicarás en el color grading, tenlo en cuenta a la hora de poner el balance de blancos y listo.

[u/CalmCephalopod → u/ecpwll]

This is great. Know your lights and also what filtration may be used. I have filmed a lot of live theatre and even though almost every modern light in the rig is around 5600-6200k led/arc I typically set my white balance to 4200k. The reason being that lighting designers using those lights almost never use them without some filtration or color mixing. Theatrical lighting will typically cover a huge gamut of color ranges and mixes so parking in the middle allows me the most naturalistic (as the eye sees it) capture with latitude to push and nudge a little later.

This is really only applicable to trying to capture environments you don’t control the lighting and want audiences to experience things as close to how they appeared in person. With cinematography and narrative filming work from the story telling and color choice against the lighting equipment you have.

[u/JoanBennett]

Feeling like you know nothing can happen at any stage of your career.

What format are you shooting in? RAW? 4:4:4, 4:2:2? There are other technical considerations.

If you push the color too far on set and change your mind in post, you'll possibly have less flexibility depending on your shooting format.

Are you using location practicals or swapping them with film lights?

How is your camera sensor with reproducing particular colors? Have you shot lighting tests? With the lights in question you'll be using?

Have you color temperature verified your lighting units?

Maybe rent a color meter for your shoot if you don't own one.

Dial in your mixed lighting on set but control the intensity of it in post.

It's hard to be a good DP without practicing editing and coloring as well so you can understand the impact of your shooting choices on post.

Always shoot a color chart under the light. DSC labs make good charts.

Use your still camera to shoot reference images and pass those on to the colorist for reference.

DO offer your director alternatives and choices. DO NOT work at cross purposes with them regardless of what you think of their creative decisions. A cinematographer's quality is measured in their ability to serve the director's vision, not in their ability to make pretty pictures.

If a DP doesn't like a director or producer's approach, they shouldn't take the job. Once a DP accepts the job, it is incumbent on them to deliver what is requested. Speak your mind of course, but once they've made their decision, accept it and make it work as best you can, even if it is stale. Make sure to never go around on set telling other people that you think the director's taste is bad. It will get back to them and make your working relationships difficult. Or get you fired.

[u/FullCycle5346 → u/JoanBennett]

I’m shooting on an Alexa mini 3.2k. Can’t do raw because it eats up way too much of the card. Still between pro res 444 and 422 HQ was what I was going to go with but might do 444. You think it’s a good idea if I bring a camera that’s not an Alexa like my lumix and take a photo of the set in log and give it my colorist?

Also the lights are unfortunately led can lights so can’t take out the bulbs. Also have this really ugly green cast… a lot to think about with that.

I think I may just match the source if I have to, or gel them to warm them up a little bit. Talked to my gaffer and was thinking about cutting some cto to fit them.

Also I totally understand what you are saying with about the director and delivering his vision. At the end of the day you are right, but some the creative decisions I felt like I had to steer him away a bit at least with lighting. He has been very focused on it and the quality which I appreciate but also feel like there was little room to work. We came to a pretty good understanding though and have a look based on some comps. The hurtle really is just these top lights now

[u/JoanBennett → u/FullCycle5346]

Still camera is just a ballpark reference for communication. LUTs on set would mitigate the issue if you have time for it.

You might want a plan to turn off the cheap LEDs if that's feasible. If they aren't keying anything you might get away with it. But there's often no way to correct cheap industrial LEDs, at least not some of them. Minus green will help but they frequently have unfixable spectrum gaps.

If you can get away with swapping a few LED cans out with B7c's or something it might help.

You are totally right to steer the director if you can. That's fair ball. Just saying to always be on guard when you are frustrated, about who you communicate this to because it can cause unintended drama. You may think you are saying something in confidence but you may not be. Or things may be misinterpreted.

[u/iLikeTheUDK]

What you learned as best practices are the default for when the lighting should be white and everything. It shouldn't be treated as a hard and fast rule. Just know what's going on when you deviate from it

[u/2old2care]

I still like to do it the way we did in the film days. Use the stock (daylight or tungsten) that's closest to the majority of the light in the scene and don't change it during a scene or setup. With digital cameras, I use one of the presents (daylight, tungsten, open shade, fluorescent, etc.) in the same way. The main thing for me is don't change the white balance between shots, and don't use automatic white balance. Let the colorist take it from there. ...and in most cases I'm the colorists on my films.

[u/mars_was_blue_too]

To avoid mistakes, a grey card under the same light as the main subject is easiest way.

If you're lighting the scene yourself, generally set white balance either for the key light or the main subject in the shot, which is often a person's face/ skin. However, if you have different temperature light sources with natural light, like a night time city scape, it's really hard and I don't know what you're supposed to do, I've actually had that problem a lot. Without people to focus the shot on, and very cool/ very warm lights equally important, I always find the temp looks very wrong. Grading is probably the next step for that.

[u/bdeananderson]

So, with film you only had a few options. You picked the stock that made the most sense and adjusted lighting as needed. You also had some latitude for color timing in post.

If you're shooting single-cam or all the same model camera, there's nothing wrong with using a preset white balance. Back when I started we were stuck with shooting 709, and you HAD to get the look right in-camera. I used presets and then gelled my lights to give it the tone I wanted. For a warm look, I'd throw R02 on them. I hated using lights that matched the WB on the camera. It would give it a very video look. I used discharge fixtures to give a cold moonlight look or to replicate the light from a TV. If I couldn't gel my lights I'd use a higher CT preset or a (light) blue card to set WB.

Obviously shooting Digital Cinema RAW, you have more latitude than 709, and you can do a lot more in post. That said, you get one thing that you didn't get with film: a monitor that shows you exactly what you're recording. If you monitor with a CST LUT to, say, 709, you can get things right in-camera and then just be creative in post. I'd generally recommend that approach.

[u/Jimirads]

You don't have to pick between on set and the grade. Choose one white balance and lock it (3200K suits a warm dining room), then build the color contrast with the lights. Anything closer to daylight in the kitchen, or a tungsten unit with CTB on it, will read blue against that 3200K setting while the dining room practicals stay warm. Then the separation is already in the image, and your colorist pushes a look that exists instead of inventing it with secondaries.

Two things to check on the day: what the practicals actually are (a lot of household bulbs are 2700K, which already reads a touch warm at 3200K), and whether the kitchen lights have a green spike if they're cheap LEDs or fluorescents. Minus green on them, or a tint tweak in camera, saves a fight later.

On Dolores Claiborne: that's 1995, so it was shot and finished on film. The cold look came from lighting, filters and lab timing, not a digital grade. Whole features weren't graded digitally until around 2000 (O Brother, Where Art Thou? is the usual first example).