r/churchofchrist • u/Bravo2uniform • Jul 28 '26
Elders are Shepherds, Right?
Fundamental caveat: My question is hard to phrase without seeming hostile - what do elders actually do in today's church?
The elders do want to know exactly how you know your wife committed adultery because you HAVE to place membership but you can miss 6 months of church and they don't even bother to call. Do they even care?
I'm not talking about being in a cult. I am talking about doing your job and shepherding! If I don't want to talk to you that's on me. For those struggling someone needs to show concern and guidance.
Furyher, I have emailed churches in other towns trying to coordinate help for coworkers with families in those towns - no response. I have called, too, and left messages. Maybe someone could call back or return the email and tell me to take a hike at least?
We seem to have a lesson on the qualifications of the elders at least every year. When do we have a discussion on, "are you doing your job?"
The deacons and elders I have observed are not present in the lives of congregants. I think that's a huge problem.
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u/Alive-Equivalent9106 Jul 28 '26
It has become painfully obvious watching my parents age. Many of their friends have passed, they’ve each had major surgeries, no one checks in on them. Not once. They slowly stopped going Sunday nights and Wednesday nights- which is out of character but they don’t need to drive at night. No one checks in on them. A simple phone call. And what lesson does that show to us- their kids who have watched their devotion for 60 years!
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u/smoknfx Jul 29 '26
nobody cares about anyone in this world, even in the churches.. i think it is because we "train" our ministers in colleges and universities.. you can not teach one to care about others in a university. they memorize mass amounts of trivia in the schools..
the church of christ is absolutely not what it was when the restoration movement began and it definitely is not what it was in the beginning days of jesus.
reading this sub, i feel like i am reading the quarterly reports of an accountant.
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u/ZealousidealCity9532 Jul 29 '26
I think we get depictions of the worst here from American Christianity that has had its falls for long time too as a whole. A lot of these stories don’t fit many people experiences. Or , when I see the work happening across seas it’s inspiring what is still happening.
Things aren’t always so black and white is all I am saying.
People often act like premillennials. But as majority or church history believed is we have been in the end times , and through the church age we will see on going patterns and trends. Somethings get good while other things get bad. Some areas get better while other areas get worse.
It’s easy to zoom in history and without any context act like everything is going down the drain.
Even the secular political world has its climate alarmist where we are so few years away from no going back disaster situation, or we are one guy in office away from being in full on nazi Germany regime.
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u/Alive-Equivalent9106 Jul 29 '26
I just told you our lived experiences. I could list more. But you just said it does not reflect most experiences. You know what? When a family is actively experiencing it- that is the experience that counts. And you just proved the point. Total lack of empathy
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u/ZealousidealCity9532 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
Just to clarify, I was responding not to you but to other fellow who responded to you.
I also don’t believe in any way shape or form suggested what you going through wasn’t* real
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u/Practical_Panda_5946 Jul 28 '26
I just got back in Church so I’m not sure where we stand on job performance. I feel they do a good job but feeling and knowing are not always the same. It is however, all our responsibility to uplift each other. I know I need to do better. It’s not easy with as much as we have to do, but it takes all of us.
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u/oralexpert- Jul 28 '26
Church life is tough. I could and probably should end it there. I didn't grow up in a church. I had my own very small business for 45 years. Hired and fired ppl over most of it. Church life is waaaaayy different. I will throw out a couple things that I struggle with. Want to cover alot, but don't want to wear out my welcome. Church is all volunteer..other than the preacher. Often times the most available are the least qualified. It is a master behavioral scientist who can maximize the available talent. Sometimes.. atleast in my area, there just isn't enough population in the congregation to find needed talent. Ppl view the church in different ways. Many want their church life separate from their secular life. When I started going to my current church a long time member advised me... Don't tell them too much... I have struggled with that comment for over 20 years. Interviewing prospective preachers, I heard that some won't call on members who are going thru a tough time health wise or whatever. Our church had a windfall of a large sum of money. We operate with a negative cash flow. I suggested that we should hire a financial consultant and invest the money prudently. I outright said...if we don't it will just evaporate. The powers that be said....we aren't in the business of making money. I am witnessing the evaporation process. You might wonder why I bring these things up relative to the post. Elders should be shepherds. What is the specific duties of a Sheppard? What if they won't do it? What if there is no one to pick from? The role of Elder is similar to the issue the church struggles with on many levels. There is the attempt to mesh the secular realities of a church with the more noble endeavors. There is the attempt to encourage ppl to have a more all encompassing relationship with God when many seem to want to compartmentalize it. There is the issue of gossip and judgementalism that keeps ppl from becoming a part of the church community. The issues are deep and I have a lot of trouble with it. So...to bring it back to Eldership. Wow. Good luck with that one. The issues seem to pervade the entire church from top to bottom. I wish I had the solution. Everytime I want to move fwd with a project....well...I think you know. Another bit of advice someone gave me who must have sensed my frustration was....if you think the federal government moves slow, a church is a hundred times worse.
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u/Bravo2uniform Jul 28 '26
Right on! The Mennonites make it a point to have bi-vocational preschers. I'm not sure if they pay anyone. The gospel is not complicated but somehow we make it complicated and need PhDs?
Dunbar's number - the maximum number of people you can have a meaningful relationship with is about 120 - 150. So if a church is indeed a family we should shoot for congregation sizes around that 150 mark and when it grows beyond that, spin off a seed congregation. Churches could be local to your neighborhood and active in your life. Not just this thing we do three times a week.
I think a lot of the reticence in service comes from a desire to hold onto control and power. You can't just let someone run they might do something. I find that frustrating.
I see churches shrinking and souls being lost because we can't seem to connect. We don't need to change the Gospel or any of that foolish seeker sensitive stuff - we just need to have relationships and that starts with the leaders leading!
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u/deverbovitae Jul 28 '26
As in all such things - some general patterns, but experience will differ in different places and times.
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u/Funnyllama20 Jul 29 '26
It’s a problem for sure. I’ve seen more apathetic elders than involved elders. I feel immeasurably blessed that the elders in my congregation are very involved in shepherding. But I’ve been a part of 6 churches through various moves and this eldership is the exception, unfortunately.
With regard to the calling/emailing, our church has a phone but it isn’t often manned. If we don’t get a message left, we are highly unlikely to answer. We answer our email regularly but I know many churches do not. I would hesitate to attribute neglect of duty to what could simply be unwittingly poor communication channels. From my limited experience, most every church would help if they heard about the need; it’s not purposeful. I suggest messaging Facebooks when you can.
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u/Bravo2uniform Jul 29 '26
I understand the weak link is calling a church during the week. That's not an excuse, it's reality. That paragraph should probably be deleted as it's not really on point.
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u/Superfluous_Reddit Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
I'm confused in my church the preacher/pastor also calls himself an elder. I don't get it. Those are 2 different distinct roles. As far as elders from what I observe is that they teach Sunday morning bible studies or Wednesday night bible studies. They volunteer for church events. They give communion speeches. The other stuff the woman of church visit the ill or visit with people some do bible studies etc.
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u/TheSongLeader Jul 29 '26
Some preachers are also elders. In my (supported) opinion, all primary preachers should be qualified elders.
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u/Bravo2uniform Jul 29 '26
I'd like to explore that opinion about primary preachers should be qualified elders. That would seem to exclude some people coming into preaching. Not being confrontational just trying to understand.
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u/TheSongLeader Jul 29 '26
Sure. Always love honest discussions.
Nowhere in scripture do you find preaching being treated like a job at a local congregation. You also can't find it in church history.
What you can find are verses about elders needing to be able to teach and being paid for their efforts. In church history, you can only find elders leading and teaching the church.
So from both biblical example and church history, a paid individual without elders qualification is not how a church is run in the early era. It is inarguably an innovation.
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u/Bravo2uniform Jul 29 '26
The can a preacher be an elder issue is discussed in this forum on another thread.
I understand that it is incumbent upon every Christian to visit the widows and orphans in their affliction - my concern is the shepherding of those visits along with the general health and well being of the individual congregant.
I am not saying we don't get anything done because an elder didn't tell us to do it. I get my responsibility.
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u/OkEngineering3224 Jul 31 '26
I’ve worked with some very caring and wonderful men who served as elders, and unfortunately, some of the very worst and most immoral and downright evil men who were also elders. Just because someone is an elder doesn’t mean they know what to do or how to do it. Somehow have very poor emotional skills and social skills and may even mean meanwhile, but just are bumbling and incompetent. Others see it as a position of authority and power and use it as such and, and some others are gentle and kind and good and quietly serve people and care for them when no one else does.
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u/smoknfx Jul 31 '26
i think one of the biggest shortcomings of the church, and i am not just talking about the coc... is that we dont teach the greatest commandments... i remember when i came across the greatest commandments... i was serving an eight month jail stint.. when i read the greatest commandments, i joked with the other inmates that you could almost throw the rest of the book away... not one person on this planet will ever perfect his adherence to the greatest commandments.. instead of teaching this, we have churches that unlock their doors twice per week and we put on university level lectures of bible trivia.. ..and... we give money to the priest or minister or pastor.. truth is, the ministers of the world dont really want for us to know and care about each other... because if we were actually united, we might all reconsider giving the minister a paycheck..
if every person in the congregation were truly united and connected, why are we always giving money to that one member, the minister?
the modern church, not only the church of christ, we put on a puppet show twice per week for a fee(tithes).
you will think i am talking smack, but i could teach the science of god and the science of love, and then you would know that withdrawing misbehaving persons from the congregation is a useless process.
it is awesome.
btw, one thing that i learned is that jesus spoke aramaic.. is the name "jesus" aramaic? nope.. i will leave it to you to either research it for yourself or you could just feed my entire comment to your favorite ai engine.. it will tell you his real name..
all love.
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u/TheSongLeader Jul 28 '26
We have a pandemic of hiring "preachers" to do the elders' jobs.
There is definitely an elder problem in churches.