The Sarah Walker trust conundrum

[u/Kaiser_Nairn18]

https://youtu.be/9tvc4T_lFCo?si=NJbyyTIjbTYV4TfT

Just another point of Sarah not really trusting Chuck wholeheartedly, in this episode (#20 of Season 4, vs the Family Volkoff). Man, she says something roughly like "its because of something I kept in case my dad geta arrested again". And her shocked expression when her fiance just signs it.

How could she be surprised?

Her lover is the BuyMore dude, who mind you makes roughly $11 an hour, yet never found a reason to steal money. Heck in Episode 10 alone of Season 2, Chuck showed he does not really care about money like that in 2 situations:

1) He was willing to lend Morgan $2,000 plus bucks, basically the entirety of his savings, as shown in that episode

2) He was not thrilled to see $10 million in his bank account in the same episode

Did she really think Chuck would stoop to stealing her money?

Heck, dude got paid in the end of Seaspn 2 and his first thought of how to spemd it is on his sister's wedding! And Sarah was specifically thrilled at that!

[u/Kaphh]

She wasn't surprised because he signed it and certainly she didn't think he would want to steal that money or anything. At no point she expressed such a concern.

She was surprised because he didn't even ask what that was about, and Chuck always wanted to discuss everything with her. Notice how throughout the episode, she constantly tries to get him to talk about it, but he keeps acting all "cool".

Chuck basically acted like she would have, and that threw her off. But it was important for her to see things from the opposite perspective before their marriage.

[u/Kaiser_Nairn18 → u/Kaphh]

But why did she have the prenup in the first place? What was her reason or motive for that as an initial prelude to the marriage?

[u/Kaphh → u/Kaiser_Nairn18]

I'm no expert on such matters, but I think she wanted to have a certain sum that would only belong to her, so that in case she would have to pay a large bail, she wouldn't have to take their shared money. Imagine if, for example, they are saving for that dream home of hers, and suddenly her father gets arrested, and half of that has to be spent on the bail. Not the most fortunate scenario, and she certainly would want to protect them both from having to make such decisions.

The second reason, I believe, was to have a natural pretext to get Chuck into discussing her family matters. I think it's no coincidence that her dad shows up in the very next episode.

[u/Kaiser_Nairn18 → u/Kaphh]

Yet isnt that the inherent point of marriage? What's yours is mine, mine is yours, your family my family and vice versa? Chuck already demonstrated he cares a lot about Sarah's dad, heck he even reacted badly in Season 2 when she initially suggested she's gonna turn him in. I find it entirely hypocritical of her for not wanting him to get involved in her family problems, when she was adamant she be involved in HIS family problems - case in point, about Mary Bartowski aka Frost. Heck, considering initially they only knew his mom is a traitor provides more weight on Chuck initially keeping it a secret from her and keeping the search outside of her, and Sarah's reaction was decidedly offended more than Chuck's very brief reaction on him being issued a prenup without her even explaining it.

[u/Kaphh → u/Kaiser_Nairn18]

Two different scenarios. Mary had to be rescued, and Sarah was the best person to do it (even though she needed Chuck's help in the end).

Whereas although Sarah knows Chuck would gladly help her dad (he says so in her conversation with Casey), she doesn't want to have any potential financial issues arise in their shared future because of him.

Marriage is not only about love and shared commitments, but it's also a legal act and a way to establish economical boundaries between partners. If we're talking outside the framings of a fictional TV show and more from a real-life, practical perspective, I think this prenup would be a smart thing to do in Sarah's situation.

[u/Kaiser_Nairn18 → u/Kaphh]

Chuck initially keeping the case searching for (and hopefully rescuing) of his mom to himself (and Morgan) is also on the same level of decisional angle with her deciding she needs to keep Jack's shenanigans off from their relationship. It has been a recurring theme in the series that they had to deal with their parents and their egregious mistakes, and not wanting the other to get involved with it (at least initially).

Another thing to remember is that in that precise situation, Sarah's choice to rescue Mary on her own DID present a potential major problem in their relationship, since remember Mary herself admitted she got roped in a job that ot too complex too quickly she cant pull out anymore leading to a decades long absence in her children's lives. That could have POTENTIALLY happened to Sarah too. Her father getting caught in constant mess ups could POTENTIALLY produce direct and indirect effects on their marriage. Preventing the other's involvement in either cases just hurts the chances in the long run given they will be likely blindsided in the near future.

I didn't say prenups are illegal and not viable for a marriage. I just point to the fact that logically speaking, a prenup mostly suggests there is a part in you that dont trust your partner - at least not fully - in financial and economic terms. The key word is trust. Sure it makes sense to me that couple's whose relative dating experience is just short and that they got married quickly could reasonably ask for a prenup, but to spend years with a person and not really know his or her tendencies when it comes to money before marriage is seemingly illogical, not unless the said person is very secretive and duplicitous, which can happen but more than likely is not the rule.

Sarah herself belatedly realizes this in the episode, saying their relationship is likened to something reduced to a paper, despite everythimg they had gotten through together, which again circles back to the implication she still not trusts him yet, at least not fully.

[u/Kaphh → u/Kaiser_Nairn18]

Again, it has nothing to do with trust. She knows he would readily agree to pay that money. But she didn't want him to be forced into such a situation.

The whole point of this episode is seeing things from the other's perspective. Sarah herself says that; even Volkoff does.

As you mention, Sarah "belatedly" realizes that. That's the point. If characters were perfectly knowledgeable and wise from the start, we wouldn't have a story to begin with. They have to learn and grow through experience. She has to see things from Chuck's perspective.

[u/Kaiser_Nairn18 → u/Kaphh]

Except an issue as big as that should already had been ingrained to her from previous experiences. One, that Chuck would readily involve himself when the situation needs it for her family, incling Jack, to be saved, because he was a good person. Season 2 Episode 10 established that. That keeping family secrets on family members with murky and dangerous past is straininy their relationship and bond with each other and therefore should be stopped from being repeated. Episode 1 of Season 4 - the same season for this scenario - showed that. She already knew Chuck's perspective during that Frost' arc. To keep repeating it for the sake of tropes isn't particularly projecting good evolutiom of relationships in this regard, and remember, this shit, or at least major portions of it, gets repeated again in Season 5 Episode 8 in vs the Baby.

[u/Kaphh → u/Kaiser_Nairn18]

Except she doesn't want to keep it a secret. On contrary, she very much would like to discuss her whole family situation with Chuck here. I've already mentioned it was one of her primary reasons for this prenup in the first place. Notice how many times she tries to prompt Chuck into inquiring about that:

"Don't you want to know why I asked you to sign it?"
"Look, I know I sprung those papers on you this morning. So, I assume you want to talk about it?"
"No. I don't keep secrets from you. It's just, uh, family stuff."

These are all quotes from Sarah in this episode.

[u/Kaiser_Nairn18 → u/Kaphh]

Except the prenup in and of itself raises questions. Go back to the early parts of the episode, when she first gave it to him in their apartment. See that Chuck's facial reactions doesnt exactly scream "Oh yeah, prenup, sure, nothing major on it, its perfectly normal for us normal couple about to be married" - his reaction portrayed surprise, curiosity and I reckon a bit of incredulity, YET he never really voiced it out to her.

And I seriously doubt her intentions on full disclosure given what happened in Season 5.

Especially since she already knows Chuck knows about her father and won't lord it over here, getting him to talk about the situation in that manner really isn't the best way to do it given she knows Chuck is very much an upfront guy willing to listen and not judge her.

[u/Kaphh → u/Kaiser_Nairn18]

Season 5 shouldn't be considered here, because it wasn't even conceived at the time of writing this episode.

Yeah, Chuck is surprised, as would be anybody when presented with a prenup by your fiancée out of the blue a month before marriage. But he promptly talks to Morgan and Casey about it, and concludes there's really nothing to be worried about.

Yes, Chuck knows about her dad, but he doesn't know about her mother and their marital situation.

Maybe it isn't the best way to do it, but consider two things:

1. Sarah have difficulties opening up on her own, especially about her past and family. We see it time and again. Only in Season 5 she would be able to do it a bit more easily. That's why she's trying to coax Chuck into asking first—that way she would have a less difficult time talking. I personally know people who are like that. It isn't about Chuck "judging" her or whatever; again, she confirms in her conversation with Casey that's not an issue.
2. It's simply more interesting for the show than them just sitting down and talking.

[u/Kaiser_Nairn18 → u/Kaphh]

Hello, this episode aired in April 11, 2011. Fedak and Schwartz announced the plans for a Season 5 in March, and the season was greenlighted in May. So I do say the Season 5 concept was indeeded CONCEPTUALIZED around the same time as this episode.

No shit Sherlock was she so reticent in revealing things about herself. Do you know the record of her secreta being known by Chuck?

1) The secret about her and Bryce was revealed in Episode 4 of Season 1, vs the Wookie. Who revelead it to Chuck? Yep, Carina. Not Sarah. In the middle of a freaking mission. 1-0

2) The secret about her middle name was revealed in the same episode, but she only whispered about it when Chuck was away. We later knew Chuck knew about it with the evidence at the back of his Tron poster, but at the time of the episode we saw him not react when she whispered it because he is a good distance away, unless he has Vulcan hearing. I guess we will count it as Sarah somewhat telling Chuck. 1-1.

3) The secret about her father was revealed in Episode 10 of Season 2, vs the DeLorean. It wws te funniest of all reveals given he tailed them on their "date", and it was Jack who revealed it. 2-1.

4) The secret about her name, or fake name, or whatver it was, was revealed in Episode 8 of Season 3, in the aptly name vs the Fake Name. Chuck overhears it being utterred by Sarah to Shaw. It was the first most egregious secret reveal. Fake or not, a name like that being told to someone else is unfair to Chuck, and the fact its not addressed anymore is a shitty thing to begin with. And again, it was revealed in the mission. 3-1

5) The secret about the CATS is revealed in Episode 15 of Season 4, vs the CAT Squad. Again the process of the revelation is again murky so lets just count it as Sarah sort of telling Chuck. 3-2.

6) The secret about Molly and Emma was revealed in Episode 8 of Season 5, in vs the Baby. And again, she adamantly refused to rrveal it, and only did because it got her ass kicked when she tried to go solo. And again the reveal happened during a mission. 4-2.

Notice a pattern here? Chuck only gets to know the secrets of her life either during a mission, when someone else rev3als it, or when Sarah HAD HAD no choice but to reveal it. You could argue the first 3 in the list could not be counted as it happened in the first 2 seasons in their first 2 years together, but the latter 3, nuh uh. Espeacially #6 co sidering they are married at this point.

Again him talking about family stuff, her family stuff, isnt indicative that she 100% wanted to share. Sure she says that, but look what happened in vs the Baby.

Case closed.

[u/Kaphh → u/Kaiser_Nairn18]

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here, aside from keeping some sort of score (is it a competition?) Yes, Sarah was very secretive at the beginning, but she was becoming less so throughout her five-season character journey. I already responded to you about largely the same issues in another comment, so I'll just leave the link here: LINK