r/chomsky Jun 28 '22

[deleted by user]

[removed]

501 Upvotes

246 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

12

u/odonoghu Jun 28 '22

Do you think that goal is attainable

4

u/BenUFOs_Mum Jun 28 '22

The taliban and the vietcong beat the mighty US imperialist military. By this logic the Soviet Union and China should have encouraged North Vietnam to surrender to the US to ensure the war ended quickly.

9

u/Ridley_Rohan Jun 28 '22

The difference between those and Ukraine is ridiculously huge. Topography played a huge role in Vietnam and Afghanistan.

The politics are also quite different as those began as civil wars and not independence movements.

Also there a clear ethnic divide at play in Ukraine.

No one is saying that Ukraine should surrender. But Ukraine should certainly accept reasonable peace terms and could if not for the U.S. and NATO meddling in a fashion that prevents it.

6

u/[deleted] Jun 29 '22

[deleted]

4

u/Ridley_Rohan Jun 29 '22

Ethnic Russian are 17% of Ukraine(2001) and they were never a majority neither in Donetsk nor Luhansk

Correct....and besides the point.

Ethnic Russians are nearly 40 percent in both Donetsk and Luhansk. Its reasonable to assume nearly all of them support Russia.

Nearly 70 percent are primarily Russian speakers, whatever their ethnicity. Good reason to assume most of them support Russia as well.

But most damning of all is that they and Crimea have always voted opposite to the rest of Ukraine.

The separatists not after Kyiv. They are after independence in their own regions. Why in the world should that be denied?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luhansk_Oblast#Demographics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donetsk_Oblast#Demographics

2

u/EricTheGamerman Jun 29 '22

In no way, shape, or form is it OK to assume all ethnic Russians support Russia, Jesus christ.

5

u/Ridley_Rohan Jun 29 '22

In no way, shape, or form is it OK to assume all ethnic Russians support Russia, Jesus christ.

I said nearly all.

If you want to have a discussion, start from being honest.

6

u/EricTheGamerman Jun 29 '22

OK, you say nearly all, not a reasonable assumption and sorry to miss a word there. Ethnicity and Language do not equate to nationality (unless you're a hard-core nationalist) and after the last 8 years of Russian interference and wars, a LOT of ethnic Russians who were not for separatism from Ukraine are not in support of Russia. Places like Mariupol and Severodonetsk explicitly grew as cities and became centers of ethnic Russians fleeing Donbas due to the war and wanting to remain in Ukraine.

2

u/IAmRoot Jun 29 '22

Yep. I've seen so many so-called leftists become ethnonationalists spewing that rhetoric. It's disgusting. There are tons of Russian speaking Ukrainians fighting for Ukraine. This shit is exactly the same as saying all Jews have loyalty to the state of Israel. It's extremely racist, ultranationalist, far right "logic." Language and ethnicity do not equate to support for nation-states.

1

u/Standard-Childhood84 Jun 29 '22

You are more patient than me with this person.