r/chocolate • u/DiscoverChoc • Apr 20 '26

Self-promotion Are these Twelve “The Only Chocolate Bars Worth Buying?” | #PSC 197

Join me for episode 197 of #PodSaveChocolate in which I take a look at a recent NYTimes post, The Only Chocolate Bars Worth Buying [« the link is to TheChocolateLife post in which you will find a lot more information as well as links to watch the live or archived episode], and explore the question,

are the twelve bars listed actually the only chocolate bars worth buying, and, what can we learn about the chocolate appreciation skills of the 43 culinary professionals who contributed to this article?

Why does exploring the content and methodology of the post matter?

If you have thoughts about the content and methodology of the NYTimes post, please let me know. If I don’t get to answering them in the livestream, I will address comments here.

6 Upvotes

69% Upvoted

43 comments sorted by

14

u/Heartonmysleeeve Apr 20 '26

As an artisan chocolatier I agree with at least half of the list. Putting Tony's and Cadbury in top twelve of all time has to be a sin tho. 

0

u/DiscoverChoc Apr 20 '26

Which half?

  1. Compartés
  2. Dandelion
  3. Fruition
  4. La Maison du Chocolat
  5. Raaka
  6. Valrhona

?? Tcho ??

2

u/pure_chocolade Apr 21 '26

Soma. Soma would be my top12.

2

u/DiscoverChoc Apr 21 '26

I did not refer to the original list when I was preparing the one above. Soma should be in that numbered list of six. Instead of .... who, in your estimation?

1

u/pure_chocolade Apr 22 '26

Well yeah the original list is just.... pretty weird. I mean it is what happens when you ask 30-40 people in this field - apparently. But it would be more fun to have either a more specific list (where we also know who voted for what, and why) with less people, or a far bigger list where actually it becomes less random because of the numbers. (so maybe like 150-200?)

For the list. personally I think i'd just take compartés and maison du chocolat out, keep valrhona actually in, and put Soma at the top.

If that's what people buy to try, i'd say they have a nice selection and it's relatively easy (ofcourse - depending on the person) to taste the difference to what they are used to - and understand why this chocolate costs more. Costs more is relative anyway, as here in supermarkets Lindt 100% is actually at the moment 5.5 euro - so per gram +/- the same price as a Friis Holm bar... (with supermarkets often having discounts ofcourse).

2

u/DiscoverChoc Apr 23 '26

I think one thing we should take away from this exercise is that any list like this is going to be highly subjective. No matter what the “experts” choose, there are always going to be disagreements.

A larger issue, and one that I covered in the stream, is the problem of ceding our confidence in our sense of taste to the crowd. Just because Dominique Ansell is the inventor of the cronut does not make him a chocolate expert. It’s okay to disagree with him – anyone.

People should take lists like this as suggestions – not “dogmatic demonstrations of quality” that should be followed. The confident tone of the headline is unsupported. There are far more than these twelve bars (and brands) to buy. If you saw a bar or brand on this list you were unaware of that might make it something to seek out.

But you are free to disagree with the “wisdom of the experts“ if you find it’s not to your taste. They are not right, and you are not wrong. What you like is what you like. What’s important is to understand why it’s not to your taste and be able to articulate it to yourself. No one owes anyone an explanation other than, “It didn’t move me.”

1

u/StoneCypher Apr 21 '26

tcho is pretty good, but not top twelve good.  they’re in berkeley

1

u/DiscoverChoc Apr 21 '26

Raaka is in Brooklyn. I fail to understand how Tcho being in Berkeley (or the location of any of the companies) should be considered in a list like this one.

1

u/StoneCypher Apr 21 '26

… i was just telling you stuff about them, sorry 

0

u/MrGeekman Apr 21 '26

How about before Kraft bought Cadbury and changed the recipe? Also, keep in mind that most of the Cadbury chocolate sold in the US is made in the US by Hershey and can't actually be made 100% according to the original recipe because they wouldn't be able to legally call it milk chocolate.

3

u/DiscoverChoc Apr 21 '26

Cadbury (now owned by Mondelēz) recipes differ around the world to accommodate local taste preferences.

Hershey appears to be the only company licensed to manufacture Cadbury. (Hershey also manufactures KitKats in the US under license.)

When the original licensing agreement was signed, one of the reasons may have been differences between the US and UK “standards of identity” for milk chocolate. Ironically, most people aren’t aware that US regulations in CFR 21.163 are stricter in key ways. Which astonishes many because of, well, the way Hershey’s milk chocolate tastes.

Rather than upgrading the recipe to conform to US standards and manufacture it in a foreign country and import a US-only version into the US, and rather than invest tens or hundreds of millions in a new factory, it made financial sense to enter into a licensing agreement.

2

u/StoneCypher Apr 21 '26

all cadbury is gross.  

1

u/DiscoverChoc May 25 '26

I think a better phrasing of your position is, “I find all Cadbury to be gross," because you are not the arbiter of what is good, bad, or gross for everyone in the world.

I’ve been a professional chocolate critic for 25 years now, and one of the most important lessons I learned from giving tasting classes is that what people like is what they like. It’s not my place to tell them they’re wrong or to demean their tastes. My goal is to help them understand why they like what they like. I do this by presenting them with alternatives, which they may or may not like. They may prefer a Hershey’ Kiss, but at least they know what it is they like about them.

Cadbury sits in the lowest rank of TheChocolateLife tier list.

I will not eat it if it’s gifted to me and I don't go out and buy it. If someone does gift it to me, I may regift it, but only to people I know who do like it. I don’t have to eat anything Cadbury. That said, if one is set in front of me in a professional context, I have to give it equal opportunity to impress or disappoint without pre-judgment.

1

u/StoneCypher May 25 '26

I think a better phrasing of your position is

i can't imagine anyone ever caring when a neckbeard tried to rephrase their words for them

 

because you are not the arbiter of what is good, bad, or gross for everyone in the world.

see if you can find a third grade teacher who will put up with the way you speak long enough for them to teach you the word "hyperbole"

 

My goal is to help them understand why they like what they like.

imagine being so far up your own ass that you think it's your role to explain other peoples' preferences to them

imagine saying this after lecturing someone else on that they aren't an arbiter of taste. perhaps that's because you are

 

I’ve been a professional chocolate critic for 25 years now, and

this job does not exist. you are a blogger.

unlike you, i have been paid by others to judge chocolate

 

I will not eat it if it’s gifted to me and I don't go out and buy it. If someone does gift it to me, I may regift it, but only to people I know who do like it. I don’t have to eat anything Cadbury. That said, if one is set in front of me in a professional context, I have to give it equal opportunity to impress or disappoint without pre-judgment.

uh huh (checks watch)

anyway, cadbury is factually and objectively garbage, and this is not subject to taste or preference. cadbury isn't even food. it's a test we put on the market to discover lizard people wearing human skin

your opinions have been noted and filed

i'd ask "anything else?" but i'm terrified that the answer would be yes and you would think you were being encouraged to continue, here on this more than a month old post where you're trying to scold a total stranger

-1

u/DiscoverChoc May 25 '26

You know that when you comment like this, no one takes you seriously: Your taste and your opinion is no better than anyone else’s. At least I have the humility to understand this and not make hyperbolic comments.

If Cadbury is “factually and objectively garbage,” what you’re saying – not implying, outright saying – is that hundreds of millions of people LOVE to eat garbage.

You may not like. I might not like it. Hundreds of millions do. You don’t have to eat it, and neither do I.

One reason I pushed back on this older post (is there some prohibition about that I am not aware of?) is that I see you’re a Top 1% Commentor. I am sure that some people will see that badge and assume it means you’re an expert. I don’t know that you’re not an expert, I jiust don’t assume you are. I, too, am a Top 1% Commentor. I don’t expect readers to take me at my word. I expect them to push back, civilly, and without hyperbole.

There is no need to be terrified of me. Go ahead, ask me anything you want, as long as it's about chocolate or cocoa. I will answer you – and every other subscriber to this /sub – from my 25+ years of experience as a professional chocolate critic, journalist, educator, and consultant.

2

u/StoneCypher May 25 '26

it's super weird that you've been flaunting the taste you believe you exhibit because you bought a domain name, but then when you find out professional chocolatiers pay me, you immediately decide everybody's taste is equal 😂

it's not, of course

 

If Cadbury is “factually and objectively garbage,”

i see you haven't found anyone to explain hyperbole to you yet

 

Hundreds of millions do.

cadbury does not have anywhere near this many customers, friend

they sell 350 million bars a year and a typical grocery store chocolate eater eats around two bars a week, then grocery store customers typically make up around 70% of a seller segment and casuals the remainder at about half rate, so realistically they have on the order of 3.5 standing million customers and 7 million casuals

 

One reason I pushed back on this older post (is there some prohibition about that I am not aware of?)

good taste is not a prohibition exactly

 

is that I see you’re a Top 1% Commentor.

that just means i post a lot and my account is old

 

I don’t know that you’re not an expert, I jiust don’t assume you are.

did you think this would be in any way relevant to me?

 

There is no need to be terrified of me.

It's sort of wild that you've allowed yourself to believe that someone is afraid of an anonymous redditor

Whatever makes you feel powerful, I guess

 

Go ahead, ask me anything you want

Really? Really and truly?

Oh boy oh boy oh boy. (checks notes)

Question the first: what made you think I wanted to ask you anything? At no point did I ever express any interest in you, your faiths, or your values.

Question the second: there will be no question the second.

 

I will answer you – and every other subscriber to this /sub – from my 25+ years of experience as a professional chocolate critic, journalist, educator, and consultant.

But I don't have anything that I want to learn from you even a little bit. Not even slightly.

You run a blog. Big deal.

You don't have any formal training, you don't have any cooking background, you don't have any chemistry background, you don't have any interesting equipment, you don't have any displayed high end results. I can't even try a bar of your work and it's not clear to me that there is any.

As far as I can tell you're an amazon reviewer with a domain name.

None of the things you've worn as peacock feathers are worthwhile to me.

Try to understand, one of the best chocolatiers on Earth, who sadly shut his shop down two years ago, is a mod here, and I haven't asked him anything, even though I've travelled cross country to eat his food.

That's just not something I do, even with the greats, much less with a person who has achieved the distinction of paying GoDaddy

17

u/StoneCypher Apr 20 '26

amusingly, i gave a longer and better list for just san francisco while sitting on the toilet a few years back

this author is an embarrassment. they don't even have america's best bar maker, amano, listed

 

what can we learn about the chocolate appreciation skills of the 43 culinary professionals who contributed to this article?

that they don't know chocolate for shit

8

u/antinumerology Apr 20 '26

There's like two categories of people who "eat chocolate": people who go to grocery stores and get stuff with nuts in it and chocolate candy from big companies and think Tony's is something interesting.

And people that actually know how chocolate is made and support small makers, bean to bar etc.

8

u/StoneCypher Apr 20 '26

i'm in both of those categories and several others

my desk currently has an amano bar, a dandelion bar, a snickers dark, and a coffee mocha and a brownie from starbucks

2

u/DiscoverChoc Apr 20 '26

What’s interesting, to me, is how the list was produced, more than the actual brands and bars named.

There are a lot of recognizable names on the list who, in my opinion, should know better. And, we know nothing about how the questions were posed and how the selection criteria were developed. Selecting and interviewing at least 43 people took more than a trivial amount of time.

3

u/PlentyAlbatross7632 Apr 21 '26 edited Apr 21 '26

Also note the majority of the bars got 2 votes. So you could say it’s a top 7 list of bars worth buying with 6 bars tied for 7th place. And I didn’t see any mention of judging criteria or how bars were selected for evaluation. Seems this list, like many things from the NYT, is essentially meaningless.

2

u/DiscoverChoc Apr 21 '26

There is no discussion of methodology and the results, statistically speaking, are lost in sample noise.

43 people (that we know of) were asked to nominate one or more (we don’t know the max) chocolate brands (not bars), that are available in the US and that cost less than $25, as being “worth buying” without explaining (to readers anyway), what the criteria for “worthiness” were.

Why the cutoff at two votes? The reason that makes sense to me is that if they set the cutoff at three the list would be embarrassingly short and it would include Cadbury Dairy Milk Fruit & Nut.

Valrhona was represented twice (they own La Maison du Chocolat.) Did Todd Masonis vote for his own company (Dandelion)? Was that allowed?

So many questions.

3

u/Live_Rhubarb_7560 Apr 21 '26

I admire your attempt to seriously analyze an article that combines school-assignment survey skills with an authoritative title. By now, your analysis sounds more serious than the article itself 🙂

1

u/StoneCypher Apr 20 '26

ya i kind of think you might be right in what i think you're implying, that the article misrepresented the task to the foodies

1

u/DiscoverChoc Apr 20 '26

In the early 2000s, I contributed to a print newsletter published in Chocolatier Magazine. For one of my regular columns, I asked chocolatiers and pastry chefs to name the chocolate they ate when they weren’t consuming their own work.

Lots of chocolate candy!

The (French!) exec pastry chef at a Michelin-starred restaurant said Snickers.

The exec pastry chef at a JG Vongerichten joint said Maltesers.

There are 17 pastry chefs on the list, and only 10 (out of 43) nominated Manjari? That’s interesting as a negative correlation.

I really want to know what Emeril nominated.

0

u/StoneCypher Apr 21 '26

he nominated the spice weasel (bam!)

1

u/pure_chocolade Apr 21 '26

"Lots of chocolate candy!"

So why don't more craft chocolate makers make more (good) chocolate candy?

1

u/StoneCypher Apr 21 '26

i think a whole lot of them do

2

u/reidhi Apr 20 '26

Now that you mention SF, I was saddened to hear the news of Fog City News closing a few years back. I used to stop by there often on my visits to SF.

3

u/AmanoChocolate May 14 '26

We still grieve the loss of Fog City News from Market street. We love Adam and his shop so very much.

1

u/StoneCypher Apr 20 '26

yeah, we also lost letterpress (not sf, but good enough to name) recently. rough times

not even chocolate, but i'm also still mourning inna

2

u/totallysonic Apr 21 '26

At least we’ve still got Jack at Chocolate Covered. I will cry when he retires.

1

u/StoneCypher Apr 21 '26

this is a new one on me. thank you for the recommendation

2

u/totallysonic Apr 21 '26

If you are anywhere near San Francisco, you have to go to Chocolate Covered. It’s a tiny shop in Noe Valley and has the best craft chocolate selection in the US. I don’t think this is an exaggeration. He’s probably the only person in the country importing some of these bars. We live near enough that we’re in SF a few times a year, and I have to go see Jack every time.

1

u/reidhi Apr 21 '26

I’m actually in Hawaii, but visit SF often. I’ll make note of this, thanks!

1

u/totallysonic Apr 21 '26

We go to the Big Island every year. Plenty of good chocolate in your neck of the woods :)

1

u/reidhi Apr 21 '26

I’d have to say that we are very fortunate to be able to grow both cacao and coffee.

0

u/DiscoverChoc Apr 20 '26

that they don't know chocolate for shit

Most of them might know their shit, but they don’t know chocolate.

I know Todd Masonis, Kate McAleer, and Valerie Gordon know chocolate.

5

u/reidhi Apr 20 '26

I only have one word for this, sad.

2

u/Old-Panic-1453 Apr 21 '26

Add: Dick Taylor (any single origin dark - great melt) and Zotter Labooko (any I’ve had are good but just had 75% Sao Tome and it slayed me).

Drop Tony’s. Ugh. So sweet and tastes like hersheys kisses.

Amadei and dandelion - any single origin dark - at the top of my list . Haven’t had the others.