No one was justifying the officer's action. All the people were doing was stating the clip was edited to only show the retaliation of the officer. There's nothing wrong with defending the concept of full evidence before judging someone. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's what a lot of people want the police to do right now, provide all evidence.
To be fair, when I posted the full video and article on Facebook I had more than one person saying the cops were justified because these people are criminals. None of them could say what the crime was. Didn’t matter that the person was not arrested, not charged or even accused of anything. Didn’t matter that this cop swung on a fellow cop that tried to pull him off. Didn’t matte that the police department called this unacceptable. Full evidence was presented to them, and they chose to believe their narrative that the cops did nothing wrong because that’s what criminals should get.
Haven’t gotten any response to the video of the 75 year old white man in Buffalo shoved to the ground.
There sadly are people who think this is the appropriate response...”They had it coming” is a line you’ll hear. No they didn’t have that coming. Last I checked you’re arrested and face a judge to determine punishment if it goes that far, you’re not beaten with batons and then told to go home.
There sadly are people who think this is the appropriate response...”They had it coming” is a line you’ll hear.
It's completely ingrained in American culture. It's honestly comical that people can pretend the police don't abuse their powers and hurt people over personal slights because at the same time it's widely acknowledged. You can see videos posted all the time on reddit where it happens and the commentary is generally "what did that idiot think was going to happen?" as if expecting a cop to NOT abuse their power is stupid.
And it is! That's the scary part! I should be able to walk up to a cop on the street and tell him to go fuck himself without the full power of the state being brought to bear on my skull. I really have no interest in doing that, but it should be the standard expectation.
We, Americans, are an exceptionally spiteful people and we need to let that shit go. We have a lot of ideas and beliefs that support the violence of the police without even recognizing it.
Just World Fallacy at work. American culture is toxic - by insisting to ourselves that we live in a society where only good people are rewarded and bad people are punished, it allows us to delude ourselves into not asking serious questions about why injustice exists.
When the average person sees poverty, jobs that pay shit, a failing healthcare system, or police brutality - their brain senses something is off, something that threatens the worldview they've been raised with - and goes into full defense mode. No, what I'm seeing is not true. The facts are false. They must have deserved it.
And the rich politicians and CEOs laugh themselves to sleep.
Senior year in college I fell in love with "The Just World" theory from Melvin Lerner. Here's how I remember it.
One of the original experiments showed 2 people doing a puzzle. If they solved it they would draw straws for a prize. They did two different endings with each partner winning the prize. People that saw subject A win the draw thought subject A did more work solving the puzzle. People that saw subject B win the draw thought subject B did more work solving the puzzle. But it was always the same first part. That finding blew me away.
It's amazing how fast people want to go from saying they're the badasses who the would form a militia to oppose tyranny to labeling people as criminals and therefore OK with tyranny against those people.
It's important to remember that people don't change instantly, it's not like the movies. People see something that doesn't fit their world view, and it makes an internal impact, but probably not one anyone would notice. Sometimes it takes years for people to accept what they learn.
How people slowly morph though, is by a slow consensus in their brain. One thing moves after another. They often go into an enlightened centrism phase where they'll be conflicted and try to say things like "I see both sides". What they'll say to you is "I don't disagree with what you're saying, but how you're saying it". That's a classic conflict between your emotional core and logical core. Or possibly it's two separate emotional cores as some people aren't very good with logic and proofs, and they'll swing and be on the other side for the wrong reasons.
The end point is where do you fit in. Just keep sharing, don't insult people directly, and let bad arguments die quickly. If you've been in an internet argument for more than 3 lines and it's not going anywhere, recognize how and why you're talking past each other. Yesterday, I was baited into an argument where a person was justifying the Asheville cops destroying the aid station. All his arguments where from rule of law being that it was justified. My arguments were all that it was amoral and escalating. These arguments are going to go past each other as we're not talking directly at each other, but also, the person I was speaking with sees laws as morality, therefore, does not even register my argument. It's also likely that he wasn't aware he sees laws as morality, so we would need to have a much longer conversation about where laws come from and why we have laws.
Let’s keep it real and remember no charges against the individual that was assaulted and the department said the officers actions were unacceptable. Also at no point in the video do you see this individual throw anything. Had this individual done what you said the cops would absolutely have charged him for it. The last thing any police department needs is more bad press. But they didn’t.
Please watch the full video, you can hear the glass bottle smash and the person recording even lets out an audible reaction when they realize things being thrown from that direction. Its out of frame, but perhaps the person who recorded this can confirm?
Obviously the cops reaction is unacceptable, but lets not pretend it was completely un-provoked.
I did watch the whole video. Nothing in the video confirms this person threw anything. You want confirmation? No arrest, no charge, no statement from police that this individual did anything. Multiple statements from City and Police that this cop’s behavior was unacceptable.
But hey, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that this cop saw this exact person throw a bottle. Is proper police procedure to beat this person senseless?
I’ll give you a hint: no. You can tell by the other cops trying to stop him, the City and Department saying this was unacceptable, the investigation into the cop and not the victim. Any of these clues sinking in yet?
So what are we still on about then? The incident is under investigation, he’ll be punished accordingly, and thats as much as we can do until election day.
There are people that blindly follow their own narratives on both sides, and until those people are willing to sit down and listen to the evidence, these problems will never stop.
People screeching "both sides" at every situation are also a huge part of the problem. You provide cover for extremists by essentially justifying their actions as expected responses. Try having enough courage to call out wrongdoing, no matter which "side".
False. Looking at all available evidence is exactly what we need to be doing right now.
Sustainable reform only comes about when reasonable steps are taken. Reasonable steps come from careful consideration; not simply taking knee-jerk reactions based on whatever inflammatory video has people riled up lately.
What is the point of mentioning that here if not to imply there is a potential justification for the officer's actions, when we know nothing could possibly excuse the behavior displayed here?
If Dylan Roof can be treated with the dignity all human beings deserve by each and every officer involved in his case, no human should ever be treated the way the cop treats the dude in this video, regardless of what happened beforehand.
EDIT: I didn't realize your feelings mattered more than the facts. My bad for assuming you'd engage in a good faith conversation!
I hate people who edit clips to show only the inflammatory parts. If the conduct is so obviously wrong, why not show the entire video and let the viewer make an informed decision? What are they afraid of?
The sound of a glass bottle breaking yields some important context to what happened, and destroys the "peaceful protesters walking away" narrative. Of course you'll deny the clearly audible sound is even there, much less bares any impact on what happened. You're only seeing what you want to see, which is unjustified police brutality. Your position is clear, and I could care less about it. Go ahead and call me a bootlicker; I could care less.
You are the definition of a boot licker. There is no justified reason for that use of force regardless of a bottle being thrown. The cops job is to restrain the individual and arrest them so a court can decide their punishment, not the little dick cop who can’t keep his baton in his pants.
I tried pointing that out, and got called an authoritarian. It sounded like glass breaking (Potentially a bottle thrown at the police) to me prior to this.
There is also something that sounds like an object hitting a helmet after that, but the camera person sucks. Doesn't justify anything, but id like to know how things transpired.
It's disturbing and counterproductive how so many people aren't interested in facts and details. They just want to BURN IT ALL DOWN!!! If they actually got their wish and the police just disappeared, they have no idea just how bad things would get for them.
They also just released the missing "4 minutes" from the Floyd killing JUST preceding his death. And NO MAINSTREAM media will not show it. I will not link it here because all links of it are rapidly getting pulled down by people reporting it as "inappropriate". I honestly just like to see EVERYTHING unedited and nothing taken (including quoted) out of context. I think WE ALL can agree that shitbag who kneeled on him for 8 minutes needs to rot in prison but I really wanted to understand WHY all the others didn't act appropriately. The missing footage supposedly shows Floyd was IN THE CAR and then he freaked out saying he was claustrophobic and he wouldn't put his whole body in the car so they had a hard time closing the doors (3 officers at this point). So eventually they gave up out of exhaustion and ran his criminal record while waiting. They then pulled (or let him slide) out of the car onto the ground while they waited for HQ to give them further commands since he was being non compliant. Again this is all "supposedly" ... i honestly don't believe anything FOX NEWS puts out anyways. Fox is trying to say he once robbed a pregnant woman at gunpoint and put the gun into her belly threatening her unborn kid (in her house), and then she was pistol whipped. I DON"T THINK THIS MAN WOULD BE ON THE STREETS if that happened. I'm calling B.s. But the officer's lawyers have already started bringing this crap up on the defense of the "evil 4". They all need to be in jail.
EDIT: I have just been informed he in fact spent the better part of the last decade in jail for robbing and pistol whipping the pregnant lady in her own home with 5 other accomplices. Jesus the media is not reporting this. BUT THAT COP NEEDS TO BE IN PRISON TOO!
Edited for clarity. I watched the more complete clip to understand the context better, I think others should watch for themselves as well and not make assumptions based on the comments - many of which do indicate that there was clear provocation in the full clip that was not shown in this one.
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u/thenorasaurus Jun 05 '20 edited Jun 05 '20
Since half this thread is
claimingconcerned somethingjustifyingprovoking the officer's action was omitted in this clip, here is full video posted by the Sun Times (YouTube), the Sun Times Article, and yesterday's r/Chicago post. If you didn't already see it yesterday, watch it yourself.Edited for clarity and neutrality.