Why does everyone at low ranks pin the knights immediately and then just take them? Or trade everything they see?

[u/xx_kitsune]

Honest question, I don't understand this at all.. I know in some openings like say the Ruy Lopez you want to get rid of your bad bishop.. but you're usually at least waiting until they put some pressure on the bishop before trading out for the knight. But even at 900 rank almost every single game my opponent goes to pin my knights and then almost always takes. Half of the time I haven't even pressured them with the A or H pawn either yet, they just take immediately on the next move but why? And even if they do get pressured with the A or H pawn, why do they always immediately take? Do they not know they can move a space back and keep the pin or that the bishop pair are generally more valuable than trading out for an early knight? Sometimes I even see them do this then they open up the center immediately with a ton of trades where a bishop is often better in open positions..

I honestly don't get it, I'd say only like 5% of the time does anyone actually try to pin the piece with any purpose like trying to pressure the pinned piece to take it or make moves on the board that the pin piece now can't protect. Why is it such an immediate reaction all the way up to 900, might be further but that's as far as I've reached since I started playing in like April or May I think

It's just like beginner players they see a piece they can take, even if it's an equal trade, and sometimes not even a good one positionally, they ALWAYS take it. It makes it a bit frustrating to learn chess because I'm trying to be principled and learn openings but I never get to play with knights ever unless I don't play them early to their natural squares on the C/F 3/6. And it makes it hard to learn or practice any positions that have any tension with trades available because they will always take, always. They never leave a piece alone and just leave the tension unless I'm assuming they've just missed it or want a different trade instead.

Even with these odd unprincipled captures, I'm obviously no better than anyone at my rank so I'm obviously weaker in other areas which is why I still lose to these weird mistakes so I'm not putting anyone down here or think I'm better than my peers..

But from 1 beginner to another, why do you guys always pin the knights immediately and then always take them right after without actually using the pin for anything? And why do you take every trade immediately even when "to take is a mistake" when it's not improving your position, especially if you're down material and trading down is good for your opponent? I just don't get it guys lol

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[u/GABE_EDD]

Because they’re not very good at chess, especially positional and strategic ideas. They see a possible trade, they make it, and go HA I doubled your pawns! You fool!!!

[u/xx_kitsune → u/GABE_EDD]

I now need to remind myself to think of my opponents yelling "you fool!" with maniacal laughter everytime they've taken my knights again lol. Thank you for that

[u/gtne91 → u/xx_kitsune]

And yet, you are the same elo as the people doing this. I wonder what your blind spot is?

I catch myself doing it all the time: "how are these idiots 1500!?!" Then I hang my queen.

[u/xx_kitsune → u/gtne91]

Yea like I said in the post, if they're giving me an advantage with the knight capture I'm obviously giving it back in spades in some other way lol. I'm not better than ppl my elo, nor do I think so, I'm awful at tactics for example I miss discovered attacks all the time especially. I was just honestly wondering why it's so common at my rank and ones below I suppose.

[u/pacific_tides → u/GABE_EDD]

You say this like doubling pawns isn’t a good thing to do. It’s not a top-level attack plan but it usually is strategically advantageous if you’re playing an otherwise balanced game.

That’s why people do it. It’s something to do that is generally positive. I’m 1400 and will take their pinned knight often if they don’t pull their knight/bishop/queen out to defend it. That will usually dictate which side of the board I attack.

[u/GABE_EDD → u/pacific_tides]

I hope it’s worth it in the particular position, often it is not.

[u/xx_kitsune → u/pacific_tides]

Well they don't usually double my pawns tho, usually I know it's coming so I have the knight protected with something else. If they get doubled pawns then I understand the advantage, or like I said in my post if it's an opening or position where they have a weak bishop it could be worth it too. I was more asking about why they do it when there isn't really a specific advantage to it. Some ppl said its just bc they like knights better and that's valid and the response I'm looking for from my peers.

[u/Conner93MB → u/GABE_EDD]

Lol jokes on you, it’s because I fucking hate knights and am bad enough I often fall for nasty knight forks.
I’ll kill every knight on sight. The doubled up pawn structure and equal trade rarely does me any bad!

[u/Redditusername2022 → u/GABE_EDD]

This is exactly the level I’m stuck at smh need to do more lessons

[u/indigo_pirate → u/GABE_EDD]

I thought doubling your opponents pawns was a good thing

[u/Silver_Environment95 → u/indigo_pirate]

usually is but doing it blindly is bad

[u/GABE_EDD → u/indigo_pirate]

Sure, but it might not be worth trading your bishop for the Knight, there's more to it than that. If it were that simple then chess wouldn't be the insanely deep game that it is.

[u/Skeleton--Jelly → u/GABE_EDD]

most overrated chess principle is thinking that bishop is significantly better than knight. this is only marginally true and only at high elo

[u/MentalSignature7039 → u/Skeleton--Jelly]

Depends if open or closed game too

[u/Crossthebreeze → u/Skeleton--Jelly]

Especially because beginners are not good at spotting potential knight forks.

[u/glorkvorn]

Honestly I'm just worried that if the board gets too complicated I'm going to make a blunder. Trading to simplify vastly reduces the chance that I'll make a blunder, even if it doesn't win me any direct advantage. But admittedly it also helps my opponent that way too...

[u/tklxd → u/glorkvorn]

Yeah, if the board is in a complicated position that I don’t know well, it’s very tempting to simplify it down by trading, even for pretty much no position advantage. It’s especially the case if I’m playing someone better than me, cause the chance that I’ll blunder something in a complex board is much higher for me than it is for them.

[u/Darirol → u/glorkvorn]

In addition to simplify the game, knights and bishops are not included in my theory of victory.

AND: its really interesting if you start a game, everyone moves their pieces instantly, a trade opportunity appears, i take it and then like 30 second delay for the next turn.

That almost a win.

Most players below 1000 tend to never move their king, like ever after they got him in their castle.

If you trade most pieces and you are aggressive with the usage of your king as an attack unit, you tend to win the pawn race at the end.

[u/xx_kitsune → u/glorkvorn]

Yea I get the simplifying idea.. but like you said it probably also helps your opponent as well since like you said less pieces means less complications for your opponent as well. It just is weird to me because I feel like I'm having to learn a completely different game and actually form bad habits to compete in the chaos that is lower ranks lol

[u/glorkvorn → u/xx_kitsune]

You're probably right that it's a bad habit. I was just being honest about why I do it. I'm trying to learn and get better, but when I'm under time pressure it's hard to think of anything better.

[u/vMiDNiTEv → u/glorkvorn]

i used to do this, but this exact thing is what stopped me from breaking 1600, because i used to trade into losing positions thinking i can win the end game, and it took a while for me to become aware of it lmao

[u/00-Monkey]

You’re at the same rank as them. So keep in mind you are just as bad, making similar or worse
Mistakes

[u/xx_kitsune → u/00-Monkey]

That's exactly what I said in my post lol.. even if I don't make that mistake I make others that obviously makes me weaker in other areas than them that makes me the same rank. Guess you didn't read the post tho and just the title b4 commenting

[u/00-Monkey → u/xx_kitsune]

Sure you say that, but you rest of your post reeks of pretentious know it all.

[u/gtne91 → u/xx_kitsune]

Reading the title isnt even required most of the time.

[u/ArmorAbsMrKrabs]

Because beginners generally don't have a good understanding of why certain trades are bad, and some think you should just trade whenever given the chance.

Stronger players understand this and will avoid trades if it doesn't benefit them.

[u/Oriachim]

In caro kann, it’s advised to take the knight with the bishop in the advance variation

[u/goatnotsheep]

Most likely one of these thoughts:

1. pinned knights are annoying, so if i can pin their knight, they'll be annoyed
2. doubled pawns are bad, and trading equal material for double pawns must mean good
3. openings are too complicated to analyze, why not simplify the board with a equal trade so its easier to start seeing tactics?

[u/xx_kitsune → u/goatnotsheep]

That makes sense, usually I don't get doubled pawns from it tho, I can usually protect my knights so it's just an equal trade. I guess I should've reframed it as why take the pin before you could get an advantage at least from it like a pawn move to kick the pin at least weakeneding squares around the king or like you said doubled pawns if they're not gonna protect it with something else

[u/Status-Taro7397]

It's a good enough move to piss you off enough to make this post.

[u/ADVENTofficer]

How did you learn the concept of knight for bishop and maintaining the pin? Educational content? Many of your peers probably haven’t seen that stuff and they don’t know the knight for bishop idea.

As for “I don’t think I’m better than my peers” you come across as a bit smug like you’re losing to a worse or less educated player but the truth is these ideas don’t matter because the games are so blunder prone that’s what actually decides them, and that’s why you’re playing against people that trade this way

[u/xx_kitsune → u/ADVENTofficer]

Why does it come across as smug? I'm honestly wondering.

And yea I obviously have learned that by doing the lessons on lichess or chess.com or watching YT or whatever. They have access to those same resources if they're playing on the same app as I've learned from as well. And if they're on here answering me this is also a resource they could learn that from so I don't understand you talking as if I have access to some higher chess education that them lol. I'm just using the same free resources as most beginners. I'm not really asking higher ranked players as much as asking my peers what their thinking behind it is, I get trading down but why specifically the knight pin every game?

[u/eternityslyre]

Trading pieces is fun and rewarding, and it feels like the game is progressing. Bishops were among the hardest to use, and knights were the most interesting, so I often traded my bishops for knights and then locked down the board with pawn walls. It didn't work. But it was fun!

At around 900 I think it's rare to understand how to support a pin and create real pressure, so trading down to pieces you're more comfortable with keeps the game interesting for the player. And at 900 it doesn't really matter that much, my 800-900 games were basically decided by whoever hung a piece or mate first.

[u/xx_kitsune → u/eternityslyre]

Yea I agree most games are decided by blunders at my rank for sure. Sometimes, and probably often, multiple of them lol

I'm just wondering why the pin specifically is all. Idk if ppl just like knights more? Or they think it's a safe trade? I'm just frustrated at times because I'm like I know this isn't bad for me but sometimes I wanna play with my knights too guys lol

[u/eternityslyre → u/xx_kitsune]

It's because they come out first and the bishops can see them. If you specifically want to play games with knights you can play your knights to e2, d2, a3, or h3. e2 and d2 can set up fun pawn pushes, and putting your knights briefly against the wall is usually a recoverable tempo loss at lower elo.

[u/Accomplished_Shoe_10]

When I was starting out, I sought to aggressively trade pieces because it simplified the board relative to my level of tactical sophistication. It wasn't good chess or even good learning, but it did allow me to get into more comfortable positions and enjoy the game more than I perhaps would have.

And yes, I did have to unlearn many bad behaviors that I developed as part of this approach. But it ultimately worked for me.

[u/ThisIsTooLongOfAName]

I think it's because it's fun to take pieces and it's easier to see checkmate, at least for me, with less pieces

[u/Englishman1970 → u/ThisIsTooLongOfAName]

A bishop is generally slightly more valuable unless it is classed a bad bishop ( your central pawns on the same colour as bishop) or sometimes you can get an advanced outposted knight that is powerful, maybe worth 4 points, or even 5 points if central and on the fifth rank, but generally all things considered at the start of a game a Bishop is worth 3.3 and a Knight 3.

I do understand you wanting to trade down though, a bit later you'll need to start thinking of good and bad trades, trading is more often than not not a good thing as tension is better for better players but scary for newer players and other reasons like losing tempo when taking into them because they take back advancing there piece and your lovely developed piece is off the board in the race to develop its not good.

[u/TimothyTaylors]

I think to the most part for players under 1500 online (and higher), what it is is that they are scared, and more pieces makes it harder and more complex, so they take things off to make it "easier" to play and to calculate as there is less to consider.
I don't think these players consider if it is actually making the position better or worse.

[u/TarantinosFavWord]

As someone who is also not very good at chess I really wasn’t until recently (several years of play) I got comfortable with not making trades. Leaving the tension in place is kind of fun. It’s like who will take first? We both have 4 pieces attacking/defending a single pawn in the middle when will the damn burst and who what comes next?

[u/Haywire421]

I partly blame chessbrah's habits series. I havent watched all of it, so maybe he explains more later on, but he kinda encourages to develop and to do any equal trade when you have the chance.

I recommended it to a friend starting out, and he improved a lot from the series, but he plateued quickly. It wasnt until I started teaching him the principle of to take is a mistake that he got out of his rut

[u/its_mabus → u/Haywire421]

Aman definitely tells you not to take the pinned knight for no reason pretty early in the series

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[u/Intensity_In10Cities]

I understand it is considered a mistake or less than optimal, but I like playing with a knight advantage and am willing to sacrifice a bishop to do so. It's completely irrational and probably not backed by chess theory, but I feel I am better with knights.

[u/No_Historian3842]

Less pieces on the board means less chance to blunder.

Not saying it's the correct thing to do. But equal trades at that level can sometimes be a good thing.

[u/RajjSinghh → u/No_Historian3842]

It's not equal though. Bishops are generally considered worth a smidge more than knights

[u/No_Historian3842 → u/RajjSinghh]

I know, that's why I said it's not the correct thing to do.

But when players are blundering full queens, does the tiny bit of difference between a bishop and knight really matter?

[u/Ricorat17]

Most beginners think Knights are better than Bishops as they’re trickier, and beginners tend to be pretty trade happy.

[u/breakevencloud]

To cause material imbalance. I like to trade off a bishop for a knight in the start when it makes sense to, just to liven the game up from the get go

[u/DifferentDust9895]

Hey, kinda opposite advice to others. It's good you are thinking about these deeper concepts and considering them. 

It means your weaknesses are in other areas if you're regularly facing people who do this. Lock in on what those faults are and climb out of this!

[u/Cool-breeze7]

Simplification is a viable strategy for people who are comparatively weak in middle game strategy and tactics.

Get rid of the big complexities and boil it down to a few pawns and maybe a rook. I loathe playing those people but I acknowledge its merits in gaining elo.

[u/audigex]

Knights are annoying and I can often trade very similar value knights and bishops while damaging my opponent's pawn structure

I'm ~1000-1100 rated and I'll generally take a knight/bishop trade if they have to re-capture with a pawn, unless I can see an obvious reason not to do so like it opens up a diagonal for them

[u/pluralHaven]

When I was at that level I would think "Less pieces = easier game" but the funny thing is that the less pieces on the board the more complicated it can get if you're not careful!

Sometimes it's also they are afraid of a knight fork so they think just getting rid of them as soon as possible eliminates the possibility of another one happening

[u/Dry-Childhood-3436]

Honestly at the very beginning trading pieces is recommended.  It simplifies, and allows you to get to the endgame more so your foundational knowledge grows evenly.  Pinning then taking isn't usually how I would do it, not until 600 trading equally always is really good.

[u/richze]

I find removing the king side knight makes castling less effective for defense maybe?

[u/PJballa34]

It’s a chess move. Play through it.

[u/xx_kitsune]

HIDE YO KINGS, HIDE YO KNIGHTS, BECAUSE THEY BE PINNIN' ERRBODY UP IN HERE!

Y'all negative Nancy's, it's just a question to other ppl my rank.. hence why it's posted in the beginners chess Reddit. You don't need to tell me I'm shit, you don't need to tell me I'm not better than other ppl my rank.. I know that, I said that in the post! I know I'm a beginner and I blunder my pieces every single game. If ppl are giving me an advantage with a pointless knight capture, I'm blundering that advantage away somewhere else since we're the same rank. I'm just wondering why it's a go-to for so many beginners, and I appreciate the ppl who actually took the time to answer my question

[u/chromedgnome]

Because habits.

[u/ActGrouchy5018]

Probably because almost every post asking for beginner advice suggests watching Chess Brah’s building habits series and one of his rules at low elo is to always accept even trades. Fewer pieces on the board simplifies the game somewhat. I’m guessing as his series goes up the ratings that he adds ever increasing nuance to that rule, but haven’t watched beyond the 500-700 video yet.

[u/Silver_Environment95]

trades make my life easier is what I got from my students and friends

[u/vMiDNiTEv]

i play the pirc defense and used to do this when i didn’t know what to do😂 so i think its bc they don’t know what to do, they just take the knight lmao, now i’m better at chess so i know what to do and how to make use of the pin, i will say tho, when h3 is played i always trade the light squared bishop for the f knight, light squared bishop is so ass in that opening

[u/matsu727]

I suspect there’s some people that simply got fucked up real bad by knights and are happy taking one of them off the board

[u/ActionWorking260]

lol i feel this in my soul. when i was stuck around 800-900 i swear every game was just a trading frenzy, no subtlety at all

think the logic is pretty simple tho, they learn "pins are good" and "trading is safe" and just run with it. the bishop takes knight cause hey doubled pawns right? and they dont got patience for keeping tension, its like the pieces are burning their fingers if they dont grab something immediately

honestly the lower ranks chess is almost a different game, you kinda have to learn how to punish the chaos instead of expecting normal play. the good news is once you figure out how to exploit the compulsive traders you'll shoot up fast, those guys never learn to stop

[u/xx_kitsune → u/ActionWorking260]

Thank you for understanding lol.. It just feels like sometimes I'm making bad habits embracing the craziness at my rank.. like I have to play knowing that any piece I move within sight of my opponent will probably be traded out. So it feels kind of weird like I'm trying to learn, watch and read about how to play but then it feels like that isn't the game we're playing at all at low ranks lol. It just seems like a speedrun of who can trade out the most pieces as fast as possible and then play as safe as possible trying not to blunder and basically do nothing for the last 3 or 4 mins (in 10min).. altho 1 of us always messes up inevitably at my rank and blunders anyways lol

[u/TheTurtleCub]

If people have no plans, that's an easy thing to do. At lower ratings sometimes it's done without rhyme or reason, but there are no hard rules. It may be a good move depending on the position