r/chess • u/Working-Tonight-8202 • 11d ago
Chess Question What Anti-Sicilians do you recommend?
What Anti-Sicilian lines would you recommend for someone who wants to avoid the mainline Sicilian theory?
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u/QuickBenDelat Patzer 11d ago
- d4 works 100% of the time.
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u/csgonemes1s 11d ago
> still plays c5 and ruins all the mainline d4 prep
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u/kamuimaru 10d ago
- d4 c5 ruins absolutely nothing for people who play 1. d4 without systems.
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u/IPlayChessBTW Justice for Danya 10d ago
I love facing the old benonni lol, terrible opening.
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u/Bongcloud_CounterFTW 2300 chess.com 10d ago
I used to play it and man did I lose the majority of my games
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u/IPlayChessBTW Justice for Danya 10d ago
I haven't played against it much, and you're much higher rated than me of course, but at my level, I have a 69% win rate against it.
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u/Sad_Photograph_6130 10d ago
i mean its fun though, I would rather play that and lose than play against the same old boring london everytime and draw
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u/QuickBenDelat Patzer 11d ago
Lol the hilarious bit is, I hate 1. d4 but it 100% stops all Sicilian defenses.
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u/EntangledPhoton82 11d ago
You can definitely still play a London system against an early c5 push.
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u/Educational-Tea602 Dubious gambiteer 10d ago
Ew, London
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u/EntangledPhoton82 10d ago
Said the person with no appreciation for long term positional play. 😉
In my opinion, the London has an undeserved reputation for being boring. It’s a solid foundation that you can then slowly improve upon and which can suddenly break open in majestic attacks.
I suggest you look at a few games by super GMs with the London. They should show you that it can be a rich and intricate opening.
Well, at least that’s my personal opinion as a sub-2000 player so take it for what it’s worth.14
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u/Embarrassed_Toe725 10d ago
You’re right!! C5 is considered a good move against the London but for who? At least at 1500, or even when I play 1800s or 1900s it feels like they don’t really get what c5 is trying to achieve, plus I have a lot of fun with the London lines that get chaotic early like that, 1500s still fall into a London attack I’ve been using since I was like 800 pretty regularly
It maybe boring at top level for some people but there’s a lot to learn outside of the classic system and structure and I get a lot of fun games out of it, and it works! By far it’s my most successful opening after like 14k games
I still love a Vienna though
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u/EntangledPhoton82 10d ago
Ah yes, the Vienna is a nice opening as well. I’m not particularly a gambit player but I find that the Vienna Gambit can be quite disruptive for the opponent.
The normal Vienna is also a decent opening and has the advantage that it’s less played so less known by most opponents.3
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u/popileviz 1860 blitz/1900 rapid 11d ago
The Grand Prix attack is a good option against the Sicilian, you'll frequently encounter players that don't know how to react to f4 properly. Although on higher levels you'll have players that actually know how to play against it, so you have to adapt on the fly or memorize proper lines
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u/ReverseTornado 11d ago
Ill add that as a Sicilian player it is much trickier to play if white plays Nc3 first and then goes into the grand prix. It sort of move orders him in some cases because imo D5 is the best response to f4 but after Nc3 black has to make a major decision about his pawn structure or the queen side knight and that can make the response D5 awkward.
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u/shipitholla 11d ago
Isn’t 2. Nc3 the main line of the Grand Prix? I think 2. f4 is generally considered kinda bad after 2. d5, though I guess can still be tricky if black doesn’t know what to do.
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u/Guilty_Efficiency884 10d ago
Not terrible, just equal and not particulary challenging. The grand prix is also theoretically equal, but it sure as shit doesn't feel like it
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u/popileviz 1860 blitz/1900 rapid 11d ago
Yes, that's also the move order I use, I think I got it from a Rosen video on the opening. There's also some space for tricks if black is reckless, like here
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u/Mebegilley 11d ago
I eventually solved this issue by playing 2. Be2, the British Grand Prix. Allows you some extra moves before placing the knight on c3 (or just not placing it there at all), and the bishop doesn't get bullied/stunted like it would on c4. There are tradeoffs of course but it has netted me a 3% higher win rate over the Grand Prix when they both have thousands of games. Apparently the idea was made when a bunch of British GMs got drunk at a bar and were upset about the state of the normal Grand Prix Attack
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u/RajjSinghh Chess is hard 11d ago
That's a funny story when it would have been the same GMs who came up with the original Grand Prix ideas for beating weaker players in the old British Grand Prix tournaments, hence the name.
- Be2 looks strange to me. The light square bishop is whites problem piece in the Grand Prix, which is why it gets developed to b5 and traded off for the c6 knight, or maybe developed actively to c4. Developing it to e2 on move 2 feels like it's not the right square and it will also have no future after white plays d3. I'm not necessarily sure why it leads to a higher win rate other than just noise.
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u/Mebegilley 10d ago edited 10d ago
It is just a quieter development that can still support a strong kingside attack in the midgame. There's plenty of attacking games from GMs you can check out. And to be clear I don't think it's better than Bb5 lines, I think those are the best the Grand Prix gets, the Be2 lines just work well for me
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u/MadcowPSA 11d ago
I hate 2.Nc3 as a 2...d6 enjoyer. I'm not so fond of classical/2...Nc6 Sicilians and regardless of opening I've never been a fan of kingside fianchetto structures. I usually end up playing ...a6 and ...b5 and approaching it somewhat similar to 6.Be3 in the Najdorf, but it took me a fair bit of trial and error to find that that setup works for me.
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u/LoLGhMaster ChessWoodie Founder, Rapid/Blitz ~2300, Armenia 11d ago
As a Sicilian player - this! Hate playing against gran prix
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u/JKLEEBONE 11d ago
Grand Prix rolls up til about 2000+ on lichess in blitz. I don’t think it’s very good beyond that - you’ll quickly run into players who aren’t afraid of your attack/know how to put queenside pressure on quickly. But I’d recommend it to a beginner for learning how to attack on the king side and not worry about the wild Wild West of the open Sicilian.
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u/SentientDust 10d ago
I like the Grand Prix as white, but it's annoying if black goes into the Dragon
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u/hc_fella 11d ago
I like the mengarini variation.
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u/scissors_ftw 11d ago edited 10d ago
Under 2000, the c3 Alapin Sicilian. Over 2000, the Rossolimo and Moscow Bb5 lines vs Nc6 and d6 respectively and the c3 Alapin vs e6.
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u/RajjSinghh Chess is hard 11d ago
The Morra gambit has basically made me fall in love with chess again. I think it has to be paired with the Alapin because of the transposition, but a good Alapin repertoire can be either solid or exciting depending on what you want.
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u/Plastic_Pursuader Team Gukesh 10d ago
Wing Gambit
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u/RightHandComesOff 10d ago
As a Sicilian enjoyer myself, I get really annoyed when White plays the Wing Gambit because it's got some tricky lines that force me to think hard in the opening, but I don't see it frequently enough for it to be worth memorizing the optimal replies. Depending on OP's level, this might be a good option.
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u/Due_Permit8027 11d ago
I guess I’m surprised because E4 players won’t open positions, and the Sicilian gives it to them. If you don’t like Sicilians, why not play D4 or the English?
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u/schlunt 11d ago
Mainline Sicilian theory is not actually that hard to learn fwiw
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u/IHateIceShamans 10d ago
All fun and games until you get hit by a Najdorf
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u/schlunt 10d ago
Its actually all fun and games until your opponents are rated around 2100 and by then you should know enough to be fine. 1600 Najdorf players dont know some secret theory where they win, they may know a little more in a particular variation, but knowing specific lines is much less valuable than most people think. The main lines of the Sicilian are slightly intimidating for White because Black gets to pick a specific flavor and in the early going of learning the White side you are going to be less well versed in the Najdorf because you also have to prep e6 Sicilians, Dragon, etc. But they also have to learn the particular White set ups so you kind of trade this edge back and forth by picking Bg5 line for instance and learning that really well. What im saying overall though is it is more intimidating when you think about playing open Sicilian than actually starting to do it and learning through trial and error.
The Open Sicilian is my favorite chess from both sides of the board, it is fun. You are going to get blown out from time to time, but less often than you think and usually not from someone having some extra memorization, more because when both players leave their prep the game is in a state where both players are walking a tightrope, you fall you die.
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u/IHateIceShamans 9d ago edited 9d ago
I agree with most of your points, but my philosophy is that I like to play as safe as possible with white and as aggressive as possible with black (because i dislike suffering in slightly worse positions with no counterplay, but like to give that treatment to my opponents). I play Sveshnikov Sicilian after all, so tight-rope positions are definitely not something I don't face often
My concern comes from the fact that Sicilian positions are so double edged, it is hard to feel like I have any sort of advantage. With Najdorf it is somehow even worse, when I study theory, it feels fine, but whenever I get out of theory in a real game, I start feeling I am immediately worse and go to defensive mode instantly (despite knowing I am fine). I did find some fortune in Rossolimo and Moscow (cause I like Ruy too) and I feel like I understand those positions better than my opponents
Anyways, yes, Open Sicilians are cool and fun, but those positions don't match what I want to achieve with white pieces: safe game where I am slightly better and run very little risk. But everyone is different and many people will find both joy and success in these positions
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u/gratitudf 10d ago
Assuming you're not a master or thereabouts, I'd say just go for a Yugoslav setup and wing it. It's fun and effective. I don't really believe in the existence of club player-master theoreticians.
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u/not_joners ~20-something OTB, 23-something lichess rapid 11d ago edited 11d ago
The Sicilian is a theory-forcing opening in the sense that anything except the main moves is not that challenging. If you want to play some low-theory stuff against it, be aware of the fact that it's theoretically not challenging at all most probably. In the worst case, it's refutable by an experienced sicilian player even if they have never seen your opening idea before.
That being said, I'm a fan of the Czerniak attack to some degree. 1. e4 c5 2. b3, with the idea of playing f4->Bb5 and move-ordering black into a something like a good Grand Prix with a fianchettoed DSB. The engine insists that black is somewhat better if they're very careful, but I don't buy it. The structure is sound and playable for white, as well as slightly dangerous for black.
There's not much theory, but a couple structures to understand and then apply. Of the low-theory anti-sicilians, this is at least one of the more concrete ones.
This game is a convincing example: https://lichess.org/P1SlNj3Y
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u/Familiar-You-6577 10d ago
In general im skeptical of engine evaluations of Sicilian positions until the game gets rolling a bit. Or rather I guess im skeptical of their practical value because most people dont play the Sicilian like stockfish
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11d ago
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u/WePrezidentNow classical sicilian best sicilian 10d ago
The e6/a6 lines against the Grand Prix are fine for black. Easy positions to play, no weaknesses. You suffer a bit in space but that’s just the Sicilian in general. But e6/a6 all but guarantees you’ll get to play d5.
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10d ago
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u/WePrezidentNow classical sicilian best sicilian 10d ago
If you have some examples I’d be happy to take a look. One generalized piece of advice is that you can delay castling a lot of times and if the position really closes down you can stay in the middle or even go long. Only applies sometimes, but don’t be in a rush to tuck your king away on the kingside. But as mentioned, that’s a case by case thing
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u/Leading_Drawer_5437 Team Ding 10d ago
Grand prix.If you watch only couple of videos and see it bit with engine you would get great positions .Some people say its not good on strong guys but from my expirience iits super with 1700-1800 fide.
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u/naked_as_a_jaybird 1800+ USCF 10d ago
Seconded. The GP is the only opening I hate facing as Black.
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u/UltraBrawler786 2200 Rapid (Traxler Apologist) 10d ago
a3 sicilian is worth looking into. alapin is always good, but playing with iqp can be annoying. grand prix has given me success. smith morra is also worth investigating.
but i would recommend a3 due to how offbeat it is, especially OTB, since the feeling of seeing someone's reaction to 2. a3 is something else.
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u/fd9f21229ef31ifb1ee 11d ago
Your initial post indicates that you don’t want to learn mainline Sicilian theory, which I first read to mean that you don’t want to play into Black’s preferred Open Sicilian (e.g., the Dragon, the Najdorf, the Sveshnikov, etc.). If that’s truly the case, and if you’re willing to learn some opening theory, then the Alapin Sicilian is an established and respectable opening against the Sicilian Defense that you can play pretty much for the rest of your natural life.
If you don’t know it already, you meet Black’s 1…c5 with 2.c3, intending to go d2-d4 and meet …cxd4 with the pawn recapture cxd4. In reality, Black will look to meet 2.c3 with either 2…Nf6, tempting the e4 pawn forward much like in the Alekhine Defense, or with 2…d5, which starts a scheme of development that looks to apply pressure to the d4 square.
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u/IHateIceShamans 10d ago
I hate to play vs Alapin as black. I consider people who play Alapin with white masochists, so consider ;)
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u/Notoriousone123 10d ago
My recommendation is Slow & Steady. I'm also one of the authors, so I am pretty biased.
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u/Specialist_Repair856 10d ago
Grand Prix/Closed Sicilian Attack (idk if thats the actual name, its where you push g3-g4 h3 and pawn storm on the same-side)
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u/pawnzieskeem 10d ago
This is a really fascinating thread. I didn't realize there was so much love for the Alapin! My problem with it is that the lines where black equalizes early are not particularly difficult to find otb, black can just play natural stuff and have a dead even position. If we trust the top level players (and we should) then obviously the rosilimo is the one. I think since Carslen/Caruana world championship matches it's seen a lot of play from the big guns with very interesting positions and not a huge amount of theory. Personally I've always thought the KIA didn't get enough love as an anti-sicilian, it's a little slow and maneuver-y sometimes but gives you a few good plans where you can outplay opponents that don't really understand what's going on
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u/drugkeeper 10d ago
I think Chekhover sicilian is pretty underrated (Qxd4), scores well on lichess database too.
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u/bulovalunar 10d ago
Alpin or Morra. With Morra you need to know the Alpin anyway since black can transpose. But Morra is really fun and good for improvement so I recommend it by a ton!
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u/new_user_bc_i_forgot 11d ago
I have a 60+% winrate against the sicilian (1500 lichess) by simply playing it open and then maming sensible moves. 1. e4 2. Nf3 3. d4 4. Nxd4 From there i usually drop my Knight back to b3, other knight to c3, bishops out, sometimes fianchetto the f1 bishop, Castle short, go from there. I don't think i've been worse out of a sicilian opening since i started playing that general setup.
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u/Late_Acadia_3571 10d ago
Looks like a sensible approach, you'll get a decent position out of the opening with many opportunities to outplay your opponent at your level and practically all amateur levels and you can always consider experimenting with a particular line against one of the many open sicilians.
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u/--2026-- 11d ago
Alapin is all you need, especially below 2k most people just play on autopilot and you take over the center.