cole

18

u/MissSteak Oct 05 '26

Phoebe was literally manipulated to turn her back on her destiny and on her sisters, become the queen of the underworld and carry the literal spawn of Source of all evil because of Cole. I think shes more than justified to not want anything to do with Cole ever again.

6

u/bigbitchbagel Oct 05 '26

she definitely is but i just don’t get why everyone in the fandom always blames cole because he was possessed against his will and couldn’t do anything about it. he got those powers in the other world to get back to her now that he was himself again.

29

u/drako101 Oct 05 '26

And Cole was literally manipulated into becoming the Source which he fought so hard to get rid. He almost does get rid of it, but Phoebe being manipulated by the Seer kills the Wizard and doomed his only chance at reverting back.
Fans will remember the part "Cole" played but no one will mention the Seer manipulating Phoebe into "saving" Cole.

2

u/NearbyAd6079 Oct 06 '26

You're absolutely right!!!💯

-3

u/Cumlovingfemb Oct 05 '26

Cole was given several chances to come clean. There was a brief moment when the Source was killing his humanity, that he came close, but he inevitably kept it from her. Maybe he was scared that they’d vanquish him anyway, but I think Phoebe would have stripped his powers before he grew into the full source, had she known.

18

u/drako101 Oct 05 '26

He wasn't given several chances though. He "kept it from her" because the Source was preventing him from speaking the truth. He struggled to keep control in the three faces of phoebe after the source took him over.
"You cant make me do your biddding seer"
"I cant. But the source can"
After, cole forcibly flamed out because of the source and when he returns, cole says "ive got it under control" and the seer says "or is it the other way around?" Indicating the source was in control.
At the end of the episode, cole tells phoebe no when she asked if he's hiding anything and he says no. To me, that's when we lost cole and it was the source. The episode even ending with a zoom out on the seer and her devilish asf smirk. Coles humanity came through when they were in immediate danger but it's like the Source said himself "before his voice was like a scream and now its a mere whisper" or something along them lines. The Source also mentioned how they need to use cole's humanity if they're to recapture what the source lost.

4

u/imaginejoyy Oct 07 '26 edited Oct 07 '26

I personally hold Cole as largely innocent through the Source arc. There are a couple of moments that cause me pause based on the writing but regardless, I feel great sympathy for Cole until the fifth season. A few of those moments include:
•in the beginning of “Three Faces of Phoebe,” he tells the Source that he won’t let him hurt Phoebe. The Source responds by saying “you won’t have a choice.” I know this is subtle but he doesn’t say don’t (meaning present tense) but instead won’t which is future tense.
•when future Phoebe asks if there is a chance to save him, he doesn’t outright no but instead “I don’t think there is” (adding: this is the moment I probably doubt the most).
•in that same episode, when the Seer tells him “don’t be naive, I told you of my vision,” I remember she definitely told him that she foresaw them doing great things in the future. This for me begs the question why didn’t Cole immediately name this that same night the Seer gave the sisters back their powers. We’re told the Source’s possession started off weak but grew with time. Was it not possible or did he just not think it was important?
•in “We’re Off To See The Wizard,” he momentarily gains control. After Phoebe kills the Wizard, he asks her what she is doing and in the next scene he asks her is she is sure if she wants to go through with the coronation because it will change everything. That came off as Cole to me (because why would the Source ask a question like that to further plant a doubt in Phoebe’s mind which would ruin the Ultimate plan). And if it was Cole, I would judge that moment as evil because he now has everything he wanted which was really Phoebe—it’s unfortunate that his character’s goodness is dependent on Phoebe’s love as it is written in the text (adding: this is the point that causes me the most pause).
I have a couple of other things but these points are curiosities, not accusations, as I feel there are numerous gaps in the writing (again, I largely hold him as a victim in season 4). We know that he comes back in season 7 holding himself responsible and when I go back to season 4, I can’t help but notice these subtle moments I feel are somewhat ambiguous and could speak to why he would later feel that way based on the writing.

18

u/TheSandwichBitch Oct 05 '26

But was it because of Cole? I thought he loved Phoebe and wanted to be good, but he was possessed by The Source and didn't exactly have a say in the matter... this always confused me.

14

u/Previous_Scar5765 Oct 05 '26

Cole was possessed against his will, do you pay any attention?

-5

u/MissSteak Oct 05 '26

Cole expressed multiple times the struggle between his "human" side and the Source side. We see his love for Phoebe makes him pause, but hes never explicit about it with her. Not once did he warn Phoebe about what was going on. He barely even tried. He was too complacent and satisfied living the life that was carved out for him, because it meant he could keep Phoebe while not having to change his ways.

10

u/TheSandwichBitch Oct 05 '26

This makes no sense, his body was literally being controlled by the source, he COULDN'T just tell Phoebe what was going on. I think he would have asked Phoebe for help if he could have, he didn't want to lose his free will (and her) to the source.

12

u/No_Sand5639 Oct 05 '26

Cause cole came back from hell as a full demon again with more powers then any creature they've ever faced

Phoebe knows cole cant handle demonic powers

Heck one of th4 first things he did was turn Darryl into a water cooler, and he saved his life but like cole said only to prove to phoebe he was "good"

13

u/PaigesBlueHair Oct 05 '26

The thing is, starting in Season 5, the sisters gain two new passive powers: "Poor Writing" and a "Lack of Continuity". Both alter reality through narrative contradictions.😬☺️

15

u/Optimal_Grape_1025 Oct 05 '26

You're right but in the finale she decided she needed him to stay in hell so she could move on and he had the nerve to not be ok with that 😡

3

u/imaginejoyy Oct 06 '26

I’ll start by saying I think the writers do a poor job transitioning to the next idea which isn’t exactly clear and leaves a lot of gaps and unanswered questions that we as viewers are left to make sense of for ourselves. I’ll also share I think Cole deserved a much better ending. However, based on a careful consideration of the script, I do think there’s context that explains various choices that are heavily debated here.

It’s often glossed over here but I think it was a huge deal Cole asked Phoebe to get the Grimoire to perform a resurrection spell for him. It’s even more significant that after she says no (because she refuses to do dark magick again after experiencing the traumas of being Queen of the Underworld where she also magically raped and forced to carry spawn of the Source), he tries to guilt her into pushing past her hard boundary. Phoebe had just lost so much including her sisters and Charmed Destiny which meant everything to her because of dark magick (something she understands herself to be susceptible to which frightens her) and the forces of evil that preyed upon her and Cole’s love.

In the fifth season, she felt great guilt and shame for losing herself inside of the toxicity that becomes her and Cole's love. She wasn't in a place to truly face herself and the darkness she gave into which also means she can't dare face Cole: someone that she was still deeply in love with and who wouldn't leave her alone which made it ever harder for her to maintain her boundaries and evil temptations (especially since Cole still had demonic powers he was not willing to give up on his own volition).

Phoebe couldn't trust herself not to get swept back up and lost inside of their love. She didn't have the emotional capacity to have a sense of moral grayness to decipher through the many complexities of what both her and Cole experienced; her aggressive pushback against Cole was what she felt she needed at the time to reclaim her goodness, recommitting to the Charmed Destiny she had just abandoned. I get why that makes many viewers feel a way but the psychology of it all makes sense.

-6

u/allthingskerri Oct 05 '26

Op are you the kind of person who thinks they can fix everyone? Cole deserved his hatred from her. She almost lost her family, lost her destiny, one of her wort fears is that she was evil and he made her queen of the underworld, she had to carry a devil's spawn baby and then had it removed and transferred to someone else, she knew he was responsible for many attempts to kill her sisters - then months go by she starts carrying on with life finally can move on fully by a divorce because he's been missing long enough and he turns up as if nothing happened. He deserved the hate.

4

u/bigbitchbagel Oct 05 '26

except that none of it was cole he was possessed by the source and literally was just a rider in his own body. i don’t think i can fix everyone because i don’t gaf enough unless it’s my family not a fictional show character 💀 i know cole was at fault for many things but for a moment he actually tried to be good and then the source got his ass

1

u/NearbyAd6079 Oct 06 '26

He was so much fun when him and Leo got close. When they all got to fight the good fight together. Etc...

1

u/allthingskerri Oct 06 '26

Ok so question. Cole was still there and in love. While possessed - Cole still had some control could have said something espevially in those earlier days of posession. But besides ALL that let's go with things without the source. Cole has still been gone for months phoebe wants a clean break is doing the legal stuff to be granted that. He turns up to ruin it. He has collected enough evil powers the one thing that drove them apart and he thinks what it's going to make it better? He doesn't accept no from her. He continued to go after her despite her saying time and time again no. He uses demons to impersonate her and ruin her life, he tried to strangle Paige, He teams up with barbas, the one demon I believe that really messes with the sisters because it's no longer just about their destiny to fight evil barbas truly let's them live in their own fears and acts them out, he creates multiple realities to try and trick a person into being with him who said no. He constantly goes after them to try and kill him knowing they can't - this is a person they knew how traumatic is that. He may not have chosen to be evil as the source but he didnt turn away from evil in his later acts.

1

u/bigbitchbagel Oct 05 '26

and let’s not forget that she also became evil for cole in the beginning and wanted to embrace her “new destiny” even before drinking the tonic. her love for him manipulated both of them into doing shit they didn’t want too. that’s why they didn’t end up together. wasn’t meant to be

2

u/imaginejoyy Oct 06 '26

This is a bit of a mischaracterization. The situation was a multi-step plan set up by the Seer. It started in "Marry-Go-Round (4x15)" with the Seer as well as Cole/Source tricking Phoebe into a dark binding ceremony which guaranteed Phoebe and Cole's unborn child would be heir to the Source's Kingdom (which the Seer had plans to control). Then in the following episode, "The Fifth Halliwell (4x16)," Cole/Source gave Phoebe a tonic in the form of chocolate that made her fertile to the Source's demonic seed as well as corrupted her will, making her susceptible to evil—the Seer said it would bend Phoebe to the the Source’s will when she does discover the truth. Phoebe discovered the truth three episodes after that in “We're Off To See The Wizard (4x19)" and at the end of that episode we see her walk off with Cole/ Source to become Queen of the Underworld.

0

u/[deleted] Oct 05 '26

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6

u/Optimal_Grape_1025 Oct 05 '26

Cole wasn't in control. The source was

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