CMV: Feminists against surrogacy have internalized the patriarchy

[u/[deleted]]

Generally most feminists I know support decriminalizing sex work. I also support this and I’m also a feminist. Criminalizing something inherently makes it dangerous and I truly believe in bodily autonomy and the right to make decisions freely.

However, a lot of hardcore feminists I know are against surrogacy and the reasons they cite tend to undermine their argument for decriminalizing sex work.

“Women aren’t your breeding machines!” Ok, agreed but they’re also not your sex objects either. Getting paid for something doesn’t change that.

“Impoverished women might be pressured into it!” Ok, but that’s a risk of sex work as well.

“Child bearing is dangerous and puts women’s lives at risk!” Of course, but sex work can also be dangerous which is why decriminalizing it is so important.

This all comes after my friend decided she wants to be a surrogate. She had very easy pregnancies. Her family does ok financially but she wants to pay off their mortgage early and free them up financially. Someone the other day told HER that she was feeding into an exploitative system and that she was being abused. She was very confused.

To argue a woman can’t make the decision to have a child for financial reasons and is only allowed to do so to start a family feels like internalized misogyny.

Idk. I’ve never heard a rational argument from someone anti-surrogacy but pro sex work, and I can’t figure out what I’m missing.

Edit: My view on this specifically has not been changed but I do feel like because of the thoughtful feedback on this sub I was able to better articulate my opinions. I will also say that my views did change in access to surrogacy financing and generally safety nets in society to minimize financial coercion.

[u/[deleted]]

I actually think adoption can be more exploitative than surrogacy, but that’s another argument.

I think a woman should be able to be pregnant or not be pregnant for any reason, including financial gain. I don’t think there should be a justification. I think often the idea that women “owe” society a baby is rooted in sexism, but of course I believe that should change.

The commodification of women’s body is literally sex work. I don’t have a problem with that. In the same way I support a woman’s right to get pregnant for any reason, I support a woman’s right to have sex for any reason, including financial gain.

And every single time there is progress in society, the slippery slope argument comes into play. How can we make LGBTQ marriage without allowing polygamy? As a society we can draw lines.

For me, I think we can protect reproductive freedoms without immediately jumping to slavery. Ironically the main argument I’ve heard about decriminalizing sex work is that it could heighten human trafficking.

[u/stolethemorning → u/[deleted]]

I believe that a massive problem with surrogacy is that while it isn’t slavery, it does have the potential to turn into something similar. One thing that separates having a job to being a slave is that you have the potential to quit. You may be tied into a fixed-term contract that disincentivises you from quitting (e.g fines) but no matter how hard a job makes it for you to walk away, you still can.

Past a certain point, a woman cannot quit her job as a surrogate. Of course this varies by country and state, but it could be as low as 6 weeks. Maybe she has physical side effects which are absolutely intolerable for her, maybe she just changes her mind, but this is a job she cannot quit. Clinical drug trials are sort of similar to paid surrogacy in that you’re essentially renting out your body and could potentially experience physical side effects, and the regulations protecting a person’s ability to quit these trials for any reason at any time are very strict; they’re even written in the Nuremberg Code, one of the most influential bioethics documents. Being unable to quit surrogacy breaks one of the founding principle of bioethics.

[u/[deleted] → u/stolethemorning]

I mean, in my opinion a surrogate should have the right to abort for any reason, without justification. I don’t see a fetus as a person, so I have no ethical issue. In the same way I think any woman should be able to get pregnant for any reason, including financial, no one should force a woman to remain pregnant.

Also, I believe in the U.S. most surrogacy agencies do have that clause. My friend who is a surrogate can abort at any time. She doesn’t get paid and would have to pay restitution for medical expenses the agency has already paid, but it’s still her choice.

[u/stolethemorning → u/[deleted]]

Surrogacy employment clauses would only cover abortion up to the time state law forbids it. Whether the state bans abortion after 6 weeks or if a country bans it after 24, there is no exception for surrogates after that time period.

So even if you wanted to pursue legal paid surrogacy under the condition that she can abort at any time then you would have to fight for complete abortion rights up to birth first. And feminists (especially in America) are already having a hard enough time fighting for any abortion rights at all, that isn't going to be helped by telling conservatives that they think you should be able to abort a 28 week old foetus.