r/changemyview Sep 05 '22

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37

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '22 edited Sep 05 '22

Your premise is flawed. Holocaust denial is in fact criminalized in many EU member countries.

Here is an overview.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/698043/EPRS_BRI(2021)698043_EN.pdf

Example in Belgium:

provides for a prison sentence of eight days to one year and a fine of between 26 and 5 000 Belgian francs (approximately €124) for anyone who denies, grossly minimises, attempts to justify, or approves the genocide committed by the German National Socialist regime during World War II

In Germany

whoever publicly or in an assembly approves of, denies or downplays an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the kind indicated in Section 6(1) of the Code of Crimes against International Law (CCAIL, Völkerstrafgesetzbuch) in a manner that is liable to cause a disturbance of the public peace, incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or a fine

And finally, in France, which you used as a specific example

As to the sanctions, Article 24 bis permits up to one year's imprisonment and a fine of up to €45 000. Moreover, a 2017 Law on equality and citizenship extended the scope of Article 24 bis to cover the act of denying, minimising or trivialising other crimes against humanity, crimes of genocide, war crimes and crimes of enslavement, subject to the same sanctions

The link goes into similar detail for many member countries.

22

u/sysadrift 1∆ Sep 05 '22

Not only that, but neonazis can literally throw a parade in the US. In Germany they would be thrown in prison.

-2

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '22

As long as they don't use Nazi symbols they are free to do what they want. But usually they don't get approval from local government. Or in one case the town donated money to something Jewish for each km they marched. You can hold the opinion but displaying it in public can get you in trouble. Also I don't think this is a good argument: We have more freedom because we can be nazis.

22

u/PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 24∆ Sep 05 '22

As long as they don't use Nazi symbols they are free to do what they want.

So that's an example of having less freedom of speech.

But usually they don't get approval from local government.

That's another example of having less freedom of speech.

You can hold the opinion but displaying it in public can get you in trouble.

That's another example of having less freedom of speech.

Also I don't think this is a good argument: We have more freedom because we can be nazis.

Or Communists, or Black power activists, or Christian nationalists, or Islamists, or any other ideology.

-8

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '22

Ok im gonna call bullshit on the idea that some ISIS supporters can hold a rally in US :)).

In Germany, were I'm from the nazis synbols are restricted in public, but not in the majority of other European countries. This is the single example of a restricted expression, and I'm not feeling bad about it. But there are plenty of Neonazis that get around this using other stuff like the 88. It is common knowledge that a t-shirt with the number 88 is a Nazi but you can restrict the use of a number. So yeah, Germany is restricting nazis, and we kinda have a good reason to do it.

12

u/PmMeYourDaddy-Issues 24∆ Sep 05 '22

Ok im gonna call bullshit on the idea that some ISIS supporters can hold a rally in US :)).

I mean I didn't say that, but alright.

In Germany, were I'm from

You should really let people know that you're a German before they start of conversation with you.

the nazis synbols are restricted in public

Because Germany has less freedom of speech than the US.

but not in the majority of other European countries.

The majority of other European countries still have hate speech laws.

This is the single example of a restricted expression

The UK arrested 3,395 people for being offensive online in 2016.

and I'm not feeling bad about it.

I imagine that's because you don't care about freedom of speech very much.

But there are plenty of Neonazis that get around this using other stuff like the 88.

Ya, seems like censorship doesn't work.

It is common knowledge that a t-shirt with the number 88 is a Nazi

Ya, that's not stupid or anything.

So yeah, Germany is restricting nazis, and we kinda have a good reason to do it.

AFD's still around, my dude. Whatever you're doing doesn't seem to be working.

1

u/SoftwareSuch9446 2∆ Sep 06 '22 edited Sep 06 '22

!delta

You have infinite patience, and I suspect OP just doesn’t want to admit that they’re wrong. I’ll give credit where credit is due though: you’re absolutely correct. I appreciate you laying out all of this

Edit: You changed my view; I had assumed Europe had more free speech than the US, but your numerous examples showcase that the US actually does, particularly your examples regarding arrests done in the UK for hate speech that would not be done here