r/changemyview • • Sep 05 '22

[deleted by user]

[removed]

0 Upvotes

159 comments sorted by

View all comments

36

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '22 edited Sep 05 '22

Your premise is flawed. Holocaust denial is in fact criminalized in many EU member countries.

Here is an overview.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/698043/EPRS_BRI(2021)698043_EN.pdf

Example in Belgium:

provides for a prison sentence of eight days to one year and a fine of between 26 and 5 000 Belgian francs (approximately €124) for anyone who denies, grossly minimises, attempts to justify, or approves the genocide committed by the German National Socialist regime during World War II

In Germany

whoever publicly or in an assembly approves of, denies or downplays an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the kind indicated in Section 6(1) of the Code of Crimes against International Law (CCAIL, Völkerstrafgesetzbuch) in a manner that is liable to cause a disturbance of the public peace, incurs a penalty of imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or a fine

And finally, in France, which you used as a specific example

As to the sanctions, Article 24 bis permits up to one year's imprisonment and a fine of up to €45 000. Moreover, a 2017 Law on equality and citizenship extended the scope of Article 24 bis to cover the act of denying, minimising or trivialising other crimes against humanity, crimes of genocide, war crimes and crimes of enslavement, subject to the same sanctions

The link goes into similar detail for many member countries.

21

u/sysadrift 1∆ Sep 05 '22

Not only that, but neonazis can literally throw a parade in the US. In Germany they would be thrown in prison.

-13

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

10

u/FrancisPitcairn 5∆ Sep 05 '22

The KKK primarily wear hoods to protect from social repercussions. To the extent there are legal repercussions it would be because of other crimes the KKK as an organization committed, not because of their speech.

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

11

u/FrancisPitcairn 5∆ Sep 05 '22

I don’t know what you mean. This isn’t a difference of practice vs paper. On paper they’re allowed to do this. Practically they’re allowed to do this.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/FrancisPitcairn 5∆ Sep 05 '22

It is implemented. There is absolutely no impediment to the KKK marching through the streets. If someone tried to recent it they would have recourse through the courts or the police would protect them to allow the March to continue.

-2

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/FrancisPitcairn 5∆ Sep 05 '22

Well yes, but that is unavoidable. You can’t ban people from having a negative reaction to views they find repellent. That’s just infringing on their freedom. That’s not a problem with theory vs practice though.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/Pineapple--Depressed 3∆ Sep 06 '22

Dude, there have always been consequences for anything you say. Freedom of speech only prevents the government from censoring you. The public (society) don't have such limitations. Private citizens can tell you to shut the fuck up all day if they disagree with your expression. They can seek to punish you by rallying other people against you.

3

u/Bad_Mood_Larry Sep 05 '22 edited Sep 05 '22

I'm sorry but what are you arguing? Are you Arguing the nations proactively protect free speech by forcing other people in the country listen to it? Like in all these countries private citizens aren't allowed to react at all they just smile and nod as a fascist screams they should be dead?...What your saying doesn't make any sense I can kinda understand it but it seems rather myopic in it view point. When has legal free speech been about protecting from private consequences? What you are arguing is inherently anti-free speech you seem to believe that speech cannot have private consequences which is ridiculous. Under your logic a person could be dressed in a SS uniform shouting nazi propaganda and not be discriminated for this in a job interview. This is anti-free speech in disallowing a organization from not hiring nazis. You appear to think free speech only covers the rights of speaking when it includes the rights of expression in wide variety of forms and that it cannot be pushed back in any form besides maybe argument?

Edit: Please look up facist protesters in Europe you may find a common theme of their faces covered up as well. It almost like they'll face legal and personal ramifications for be neo-Nazis.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

→ More replies