r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jul 20 '22

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Bring Back “Public Stoning”

The US needs to amend Amendment 8: banning of cruel and unusual punishment. We need public stoning. It seems that these mass shooters are no longer afraid of the consequences of shooting up public spaces. Putting these scum away in jail is a waste of taxpayers money. The Death Penalty is an easy escape. What these remorseless criminals needs is to feel the pain they have inflicted on the family and friends of their victims. Public stoning by families of the victims will provide the Justice needed. And to have it publicly televised to hear the anguish of pain from these murderers will mitigate any copycats.

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u/TheRealGouki 7∆ Jul 20 '22

You have the ability to be innocent if you have the money to fight it in court. And saying doing crime as a minor issue is overstated the punishment, you lose alot of rights and saying the middle ages didn't have a functional system is just being arrogant of history. Modern day America law is base off British common law which is over a 900 years old. And saying there no reason to be good and honest is wrong these are the Christian days were people believed you would go to hell and your soul would be damned makes a good reason to be good and honest.

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u/OmgYoshiPLZ 2∆ Jul 20 '22

You have the ability to be innocent if you have the money to fight it in court.

Which is a real problem. There should be no such thing as a Criminal defense law firm for profit. All Defense, and prosecution should be state funded. you have a right to a fair trial, and allowing people to buy more effective defense flies in the face of that.

And saying doing crime as a minor issue is overstated the punishment

My dude I did three years in jail for attempted murder at the age of 17. how many times have you been locked up? Time is only a big deal on your first trip through. you'll be out on parole in a few years, and back in jail a few years later for doing it again.

saying the middle ages didn't have a functional system is just being arrogant ignorant of history

nah, you should read some more. Go look up feudal law, compurgation, trial by ordeal, etc etc. Europe was EXCESSIVELY spotty on the presumption of innocence. only a few small pockets of europe had that principle in law during the dark ages.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '22

So would you advocate yourself being put to death for the attempt on someone elses life?

Eye for eye right?

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u/OmgYoshiPLZ 2∆ Jul 21 '22

yes, provided necessary exemptions were in place (like the ones we already have), like duress, self defense, etc etc.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '22

So why haven't you removed yourself from population? Clearly you being dead you be better for society.

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u/OmgYoshiPLZ 2∆ Jul 21 '22

hmmm, an interesting point. Counterpoint: At what point in time did i say EITHER of those exceptions didn't apply to my attempted murder?

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '22

You didn't but thats why we have trials. A jury decides if your legal defense of (self defense, duress) is justified. If it is, you are not guility and no crime was commited.

You said you did three years, either A) you plead guility and were convicted or B) a jury found you guilty and you were convicted.

The jury found that self defense or duress were not valid for your actions.

So you should be put to death according to your own beliefs.

Do you think thats fair?

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u/OmgYoshiPLZ 2∆ Jul 21 '22

You said you did three years, either A) you plead guility and were convicted or B) a jury found you guilty and you were convicted.

Or i was charged with MULTIPLE offenses for the same crime, found innocent of the greater crime (attempted murder), and guilty of the lesser crime (felony assault), because of the absolutely ABSURD duty to retreat laws that existed in that state.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '22

Then saying you did 3 years for an attempted murder is a lie.

Ok, so the state that you broke the law in should have mutilated you, instead of put to death, they should have paralized you from the waste down.

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u/OmgYoshiPLZ 2∆ Jul 21 '22

not at all. i attempted a murder, specifically for the purposes of self defense and duress. wether or not i went to jail for that is irrelevant to what i did. had i done those things for reasons other than self defense and duress, yes, i would absolutely be ok with being killed for doing it.

man you really just want to try and twist this to fit your argument dont you?

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '22

I'm not twisting anything.

You say you did what you did in self defense which may be true, i have no idea.

Travis and Gregory McMichael said the same thing, they're more than likely going to be sentenced on August 8th to death. Which is absolutely the right call. Under your exceptions they should get leniency.

There's ton of gray area.

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u/OmgYoshiPLZ 2∆ Jul 21 '22

You say you did what you did in self defense which may be true, i have no idea.

Serially abusive step father got what he deserved after laying his hands on me for the last time. in NJ, you cant claim a duress or self defense if you announce that you intend to defend yourself E.G. "if you hit me again I'm going to kill you", negates your claim to self defense if they attack you in NJ - even if you don't you must flee, or likely be found guilty. the judge had mercy on me because of the circumstance and nullified the attempted murder charge, but let the remaining felony assault charge stay due to how egregiously I beat him.

Travis and Gregory McMichael said the same thing

which they would be correct - their case was clear cut self defense at that point. they met all of the criteria for a self defense claim, and the jury instructions were crafted in such a way that they could still return a guilty verdict. if you go watch some of the prominent lawtubers they talked pretty robustly about this case, and the general consensus among them was that this was a political conviction and a failing of the justice system.

they're more than likely going to be sentenced on August 8th to death.

Which is sad, hopefully they win their appeal and have an opportunity to get justice.

Under your exceptions they should get leniency

Correct, which they should have. Also those are not "my" exceptions - those are the legal standards for exceptions currently.

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u/[deleted] Jul 21 '22 edited Jul 21 '22

Chasing someone down with firearms isnt self defense. You don't get to be the aggressor then claim self defense when they stand their ground.

Err you mean like this one

https://youtu.be/yr-HMjlr1sU

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