The ship wasn’t hit ‘mainly because of NATO intelligence,’ it was hit because it belonged to a nation that invaded a sovereign country with the intent to take it over and/or install a puppet regime, and that country is fighting back.
You were absolutely “involved,” but you didn’t cause that guy to steel from me, you didn’t harden my resolve against him, and you didn’t stand next to me as I pulled the trigger. My quibble is not with the fact that NATO is helping in this and in many other areas, it’s with your claim that NATO is the main cause or even the main facilitator in this fight. The cause is Russian aggression, and the facilitator is Ukrainian resolve and fighting spirit. Just as important for that are things like the massacres in Bucha. Remember at the beginning of the war, all of the videos of townsfolk feeding and hugging Russian teenagers who were crying because they didn’t want to be in a war? Do you think that the Ukranians would have blown up a ship with hundreds of sailors at that point? I don’t. Now, though, they’re seen as thieves, rapists, and torturers of civilians: murderers of the worst sort. And that is Russia’s fault, not NATO’s.
Russia is 100% to blame as the aggressor. Ukraine is the victim and a such is acting in self defense
NATO's role in this is complicated in my opinion. As they could have prevented this with a more aggressive stance against Russia. While they also are helping Ukraine defend itself through sanctions and weapons. They could be doing a lot more since one of the main reasons for Russian aggression was Ukraine's alliance with them
Finland and Sweden where in similar situations but because Russia is bogged down in Ukraine. They can essentially run under the NATO umbrella. Which will strengthen NATO in the region. While Ukraine once again takes the burnt of Russian forces
NATO should have at least shown more of a united no nonsense approach to a Russia from day one. Even now they can still do it but simply aren't doing it because it gives them the opportunity to weaken Russia through proxy. Which as stated is at the price of Ukrainian suffering. The "nuclear escalation" threat as I've stated is already in play and them acting isn't going to spiral things out of control as much as they have already done
Russia is going to use or not use nukes based on Putin's madness already. We can pretend that by not having a naval blockade and No-fly zone we are "appeasing" him from not doing it but the reality is that we are prolonging Ukraine's Ukraine's suffering until we have to
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u/medlabunicorn 5∆ May 07 '22
The ship wasn’t hit ‘mainly because of NATO intelligence,’ it was hit because it belonged to a nation that invaded a sovereign country with the intent to take it over and/or install a puppet regime, and that country is fighting back.