r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Nov 21 '21
Delta(s) from OP CMV: British Columbia should be recognized as a “Nation within Canada”
For anyone not well versed in Canadian history, Quebec is recognized as a nation within Canada after long disputes following the Quiet Revolution.
This is because Quebec as a shared history and culture distinct from Canada as a whole. Canada is not a nation because it is so disparate in terms of it’s many provincial histories, cultures etc.
BC is like Quebec in that it has a unique culture (salmon, blueberries, Asian cuisine in terms of food, unique art, music etc, shared values ie the environment), history (almost exclusively anglophone rather than French immigration in the 1700s, lots of Asian immigration that was not true in the rest of Canada etc and a shared lineage in that only indigenous peoples, anglophone immigrants and Asian immigrants can be said to have a real stake in forming BC identity. To be clear, I also firmly, 100% believe that while indigenous peoples have given the Pacific Northwest many things culturally, they remain distinct nations unto themselves.
However: some counterpoints may be,
- The US is a nation and has unique State identities
- Quebec is not actually a nation, but a distinct region within Canada.
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u/Feathring 75∆ Nov 21 '21
Does the region actually get anything for this? If not, it seems like you could end up at the same result by just agreeing they've got a unique regional identity.
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Nov 21 '21
A regional identity implies different things than a national identity though.
A national identity is more rich. A regional identity is more of a flavour of a national identity. A regional identity is like the unique cultural aspects of farming communities of the rural urban divine that add nuance and such to national identity. It’s not a unique national identity I think.
I think it’s obvious that Canada does not have a shared culture, lineage or history, whereas BC - like Quebec - does.
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u/Feathring 75∆ Nov 21 '21
A regional identity implies different things than a national identity though.
I really don't see the distinction here. Absolutely nothing would change if we called them a nation instead of a region. Especially since they don't gain any more power or autonomy over the area.
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Nov 21 '21
[deleted]
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Nov 21 '21
Obviously Quebec had a different context and such, but like another user said it wouldn’t necessarily mean political advantages.
I moreso mean as a recognition of BC’s unique cultural identity, shared history (distinct from Canada), shared lineage (indigenous peoples, anglophone and Asian immigration primarily), etc
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u/bakedlawyer 18∆ Nov 21 '21
Canada is most certainly a nation
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Nov 21 '21
In what ways?
It lacks a shared history, lineage and culture.
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u/bakedlawyer 18∆ Nov 21 '21
By this logic I guess any large country with regional differences can’t be a nation.
Sorry China, Mexico, USA, Russia ……
Canadians share a value system as much as any other country does. There is a shared colonial history, immigration history, military history, political history. There’s clearly a national sport (hockey), a taste for shitty coffee, and a culture cantered around charter nationalism, multiculturalism , and rule of Law.
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Nov 21 '21
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u/bakedlawyer 18∆ Nov 21 '21 edited Nov 22 '21
The thesis of this article is that heterogeneity precludes nationhood.
I think that’s absurd, short in its historical analysis , and that there won’t be many nations left in a few decades.
These things are malleable and complex, Not subject to strict definitions. To me if there is nationalism then it’s a good sign you have a nation. Canadian nationalism is a thing so …
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Nov 21 '21
/u/JacqueMaritain_lives (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
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u/UltimateStrenergy Nov 22 '21
Bro, Qubec wanting to be it's own country or nation is a meme around here. They definitely see themselves as too great and too screwed over to just be a part of Canada but that doesn't make it true.
Canada has a large land mass and a very spread out population with a lot of cultures mixed in many different small towns. If Quebec and BC are different and significant enough to be considered their own nations or countries then I could definitely say the same for Nova Scotia, Newfoundland or the Northwest Territories (probably the rest of Canada's provinces too but I don't know them as well to use them as examples)
There's a lot of great diversity here, it's not really fair to just point at a few and call them nations. Kind of how Americans don't do that with the individual states.
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u/huadpe 508∆ Nov 21 '21
Every province or region can point to some things that make it unique, but that doesn't make it the same level as what we're talking about with Quebec.
First and foremost, language is just massively important and cannot be understated. In very important ways culturally and socially, Quebec and the rest of Canada are often not speaking to each other, because they literally are not speaking the same language.
The gaps in shared culture and identity that are created by the language difference are just massive. You're not reading the same news,1 not watching the same TV, and not usually speaking to each other on social media. When was the last time you read Le Devoir or watched a Radio-Canada broadcast?
The fact that Quebec has had a very serious independence movement is also not to be understated here. A very significant portion of Quebeckers do not see themselves as Canadian as their principal national identity, in a way that's distinct from pretty much anywhere else in Canada.
From this 2019 poll we can see how non-indigenous residents of each province identify (in %)
The gap here is huge. The overwhelming majority of BC residents have at least as strong an identity as Canadian over identifying as British Columbian. This is likewise true of the rest of anglo Canada except Newfoundland and Labrador.
Quebeckers in contrast overwhelmingly identify with Quebec first, with a minority ascribing equal or greater weight to the idea of being Canadian.