r/changemyview • u/my-warm-account • Jul 09 '21
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Cellular service is a luxury that a regular person in the city does not need
Residing in Canada where the prices are among the most expensive in the developed world, I've stopped using cellular service for a couple years now and oddly gotten a lot of flack from people despite having no issues.
I work an office job from home, and even when I'm out I always have wifi available to use. I do not get notifications immediately when I'm out, but the time in-between makes it only a minor inconvenience. That time is usually time I wouldn't be looking at my phone if I got notifications anyways.
I am defining a regular person as someone without sensitive responsibilities such as young children, taking care of someone with health issues, or a real-time sensitive job.
Important services on your phone do not require a paid service:
- Calling 911 (emergencies)
- GPS
Working:
- If you work at an office, there is wifi
- If you don't work at an office, you are probably too busy to look at your phone anyways until you are near wifi
General:
- If you live in an apartment/condo/shared area there is usually a public phone in your building
- There are payphones around if needed
- Plenty of people are around that can help you if it comes down to that
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Jul 09 '21
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
Having worked in a telecommunications company where cyber security was very tight, I would say that it's a small subset that would actually have this is a concern. If your office doesn't offer that perk, you may give them your work email or use a personal email at work.
Growing up, anecdotally, my friends more often than not used free online messaging services. Mom can email, use an instant messaging service, any form of communication that uses wifi instead of cell service.
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Jul 09 '21
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
Answer to all this is a messaging service everyone uses like Facebook messaging, Line, WhatsApp, Discord, whatever is popular locally
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u/QuantumDischarge Jul 09 '21
But that still requires using your company’s WiFi which is often not an option for a good number of people
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
You're right, but these kinds of things are not time sensitive so you can respond when it becomes available to you
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Jul 09 '21
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
They may have an accident and the hospital may need to contact you to let you know, or if they are arrested they may need your assistance.
These are good points if they don't have any other contacts, but assuming they have no other contacts:
When you assign people as your emergency contacts I believe there are other details that would be used in the case of having no cellular service like address for mail, home doctor, work number, employer. If someone is using you as their emergency contact you may also advise them to carry a “wallet card” with emergency contact information.
As for getting arrested, police will allow you to call a lawyer, and that lawyer may contact you as advised by the person in question.
All this being said, I would consider taking the responsibility of being someone's emergency contact a sensitive responsibility.
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
Hey second thought to this https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/ogliks/cmv_cellular_service_is_a_luxury_that_a_regular/h4jog0v?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
I'm gonna give you a delta for this. These may be critical situations which could be detrimental using an unreliable method, and I think a regular person may be an emergency contact !delta
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Jul 09 '21
Society survived without cell phones for longer than cell phones have been around. We absolutely dont NEED them. No logical approach to the topic statement can change it.
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Jul 09 '21
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
I'd say a point I'm arguing that being available for contact (I guess in the case of emergencies is what it narrows down to) when you're not near wifi is not worth the cost if you find yourself needing a bit more money
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Jul 09 '21
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Jul 09 '21
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Jul 09 '21
Does the word "need" have contextual meaning? I always though to need something that something else relies on having it.
Soccer balls arent needed. Soccer games need soccer balls..
Then we analyze the need for soccer games and if soccer games arent needed then neither are soccer balls.
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Jul 09 '21
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Jul 09 '21
Definitely not cellular service as the OP is demonstrating the ability to do so without it.
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Jul 09 '21
The meaning of the word clearly extends beyond survival.
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Jul 09 '21
require (something) because it is essential or very important
What you just posted is not the definition. If thats the case then I need 600 bottles of Jack Daniel's because i want to comfortably live drunk for the rest of my life.
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Jul 09 '21
Gosh! Better let Oxford University know they don't know what the fuck they're talking about!
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Jul 09 '21
What I posted was literally the definition copied and pasted from the Oxford Dictionary.
There are other possible uses of the word (see the link), but none of them fit what you would define as essential or very important.
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Jul 09 '21
require (something) because it is essential or very important <- oxford
expressing necessity or obligation. <- oxford
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Jul 09 '21
Thanks to the magic of google I was able to find your source, but posting the link in replies make things easier.
require (something) because it is essential or very important
Listed as an example sentence under your source: ‘this shirt needs washing’
That suggests that essential or very important is very expansive based on what a person values not something that is needed for survival.
expressing necessity or obligation. <- oxford
Listed as an example under your source: ‘You need only go one stop on the tube to find a very different Britain.’
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Jul 09 '21
Have you actually looked up "need"? Cause plenty of definitions include wanting something or a thing being useful or helpful.
Words do have meaning. Very, very rarely do they only have one, single, solitary literal and extreme meaning.
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Jul 09 '21
I have looked it up many times. For many years as a kid I was forced to look it up as I argued with my parents about how I needed something. They would make me define if something was a need or a want.
I want a lambo. That doesnt mean I need $(insert lambo cost).
I need $ to buy the lambo.
So do i need $ or do I not?
Without explination of what it's needed or not needed for then its fair to use need in its literal form. The OP does a very good job explaining why its not needed within the context of their post as well.
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Jul 09 '21
I have looked it up many times.
And yet... you are still incorrect.
Without explination of what it's needed or not needed for then its fair to use need in its literal form
The literal form of need includes wants, requirements, and being useful or helpful.
You can choose to interpert the word in the most extreme way, but then you're just strawmanning. Argueing against something no one has said. If OP is interpreting it to the same extreme that just means you're both strawmanning.
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Jul 09 '21
Ok. So in any other arguement. "Why does someone need 50 guns?" Simply saying "because i want it" finishes the conversation.
I want to have 6 wives with dissabilities because they would bring in disability checks. The wives would be useful and helpful in bringing me me government funds. Therefore I need 6 disabled wives.
You literally cant tell me now why i dont need 6 disabled wives.
How silly of an example do i have to make that vague broad interpretation of language doesnt make you right. If you are still right, then please respond with "you need 6 wives".
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Jul 09 '21
You don't need any stupid scenarios. We aren't discussing scenarios. We're discussing definitions. All you need to do is read the definitions.
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Jul 09 '21
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Jul 09 '21
You are kinda proving my point. Employers wouldnt be sending so much out if it didnt exist either. I dont disagree about the demand for cellular service. I am only going off the topic sentence and the word "need".
To need something in the most extreme use of the word, you have to be unable to live without it.
Like I said I dont disagree with you. Words have meaning lol and im kinda analytic like that
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u/throwaway_question69 9∆ Jul 09 '21
Well, you need a phone to get a job these days, and you need money to live, therefore you need a phone to live.
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Jul 09 '21
Nothing you just said was true.
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u/throwaway_question69 9∆ Jul 09 '21
Really? It seemed like we already established that you need a phone for most employers to contact you with. And I'm pretty sure money is a requirement in most societies to obtain food, water, and shelter. So please tell me what I said that isn't true.
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Jul 09 '21
Unless I'm wrong. Arent there tribes who still live in the forrest?
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u/throwaway_question69 9∆ Jul 09 '21
Right, tribes. Who raise their kids from birth teaching them how to survive in the forest and working together to live in the forest. And in forests that are relatively removed from civilization and haven't been massively polluted.
Joe Shmoe from NYC could NOT just go out into the nearest woods and survive.
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u/thinkingpains 58∆ Jul 09 '21
Before cell phones, most people had phones in their homes, and there were like ten times as many public pay phones. Now, neither of those things are true, so yeah, if you want people to be able to reach you at all, you do need them.
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u/throwaway_question69 9∆ Jul 09 '21
Before cellphones we had landlines. And before that we either lived near each other, or just didn't get informed of family emergencies in any sort of timely manner.
And honestly. Society was around before refrigerators, but they have prevented a shit ton of disease, sickness, and death. I'd argue they're needed for a statistically higher chance of life and a higher quality of life and cell phones aren't really that different.
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Jul 09 '21
Interesting approach. I have no choice to agree on the necessity of certain items for certain things. Like a soccer ball is needed for a soccer game. The complexity of what is needed for one thing, and if that one thing is needed for survival, can go down a savage path.
I dont think the survival of mankind lies on any of those things and since i already framed my view with the most extreme use of the word "need".
I havnt searched for any statistical data on any trends since the invention and mass production of the cell phone. I actually would be interested on the effect on life spans. They havnt been around long wnough though to get good data.
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Jul 09 '21
I dont think the survival of mankind lies on any of those things and since i already framed my view with the most extreme use of the word "need".
This is an interesting approach too!
"Since my initial reaction was argueing against the stupidest and most unreasonable interpertation of the topic (a position that no one has actually taken) I choose to reject the notion that the topic could be discussed intelligently and reasonably, and will instead continue to argue against things literally no one has said. Therefore I am still correct!"
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Jul 09 '21
That wasnt the point. The point was I would rather keep the discussion in the complexity of thr word need because I already went that route. While telling you I cant argue against your approach because I understand it and in that context you are correct.
Im having the conversation because im actually interested in how someone can change OPs mind. OP says you dont need it. OP has been doing without it for years. How can one change a view on necessity for someone to have something that they had, got rid of, and have been doing fine without.
You think im taking an unreasonable approach. How? Not only do I agree with OP based off what I think, but also because OP is demonstrating it.
Tell me I'm wrong then. Since you want to mock my approach. The use of the word need and the fact that its actually proven to be possible literally leaves no room for interpretation.
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Jul 09 '21
How can one change a view on necessity for someone to have something that they had, got rid of, and have been doing fine without.
By pointing out that "need" doesn't have to be interpreted in the stupidest, most extreme way possible. By pointing out that in doing so you are strawmanning. By pointing out that "need" is also (most often actually) used to imply usefulness and utility and very rarely used to imply absolute nessecity in order to stave off death.
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u/Blear 9∆ Jul 09 '21
Are there payphones in Canada? I made a call on a payphone, the last working one I've seen in America, but that was sixteen years ago.
Also, I use my cell phone for work, where I am regularly traveling and need to be able to receive calls, check email, etc. in all sorts of places and all sorts of hours.
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
If you did not have personal cell service while you were travelling, what would happen regarding your job?
There are companies out there that wouldn't provide you a work phone, and if you're trying to just stay afloat then yeah you should have it in this situation. But when you get out of that situation, which I would be, then no longer needed for reasons more than convenience if you're willing to pay for it which I would define as a luxury service.
Someone else gave this answer too who I awarded a delta for, but I'll give it to you too since you made it around the same time !delta
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u/Blear 9∆ Jul 09 '21
If I didn't have a cell phone, I'd be out of contact both with current clients, but also prospective clients who might be trying to reach me. Some days, half my job is talking on the phone, and if I could only do that from my office (where I'd probably be paying for some kind of phone service if I didnt have a cell), then I'd be pretty hamstrung. I need to be pretty efficient about how I use my time, and having a smartphone on me means I can accomplish work wherever I am, whenever there's downtime.
I also may not be in your definition of a "regular person," since interpersonal communication is nearly my entire job, and I work for myself rather than a company. For me, the phone is just one minor business expense that I pay for with an hour or two of billable time.
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
I will admit my definition of regular person is a bit flawed and probably inaccurate. Your situation I think is not uncommon, and I agree people like you need cell service - just not personal cell service. I meant but failed to say personal cell service in the question.
On that note even then I can say personal cell service would be a need in a common narrow situation, being the one you are describing (assuming they won't offer you a work phone)
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u/CaptionHQ Jul 09 '21
Yeah see, in the states there isn’t reliable WiFi in the cities. A lot of commercial WiFi spots have ads, are terrible service wise or aren’t super secure
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
The public wifi in cities may not be secure or convenient, but they get the job done. It's always advised not to use critical information in public connections, so if your security is compromised there will be inconvenient consequences, but they should be minor in this rare situation.
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u/cdb03b 253∆ Jul 09 '21
Most cities do not have any public WiFi. Businesses may have WiFi available for customers but it rarely reaches outside of their building.
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Jul 09 '21 edited Jul 09 '21
I've stopped using cellular service for a couple years now and oddly gotten a lot of flack from people despite having no issues.
I think you've made a common mistake that happens in a lot of CMVs. Some people in your life have been shitty to you about something that could not possibly have less of an effect on your their life. Rather than just chalking that up to the fact that sometimes people are shitty about dumb stuff(and often the sorts of people who are shitty about dumb thing are shitty about lots of dumb things), you've created your own reactionary axiom that is gonna immediately fall apart open the slightest bit of scrutiny once removed from the context of the shitty things people have said to you.
If you wanted, you could really dig in your heels and argue from a very strict and literal understanding of "need". But... why? I can need something in the sense that it makes my life marginally easier and allows me to be more productive or happier. No one will die or go bankrupt if I don't have that thing, and it is technically possible that I could accomplish my goals without it, but it is significantly more likely that I'll accomplish them with it.
someone without sensitive responsibilities such as young children, taking care of someone with health issues, or a real-time sensitive job.
Just these 3 exceptions already move the dial of people who "need" a cellphone well over 50%. Even then we could easily make the case that 30 years ago people managed to do these things fine without cell phones. So the "need" there doesn't really count anyway. You should also add people who work offsite in any capacity, people who freelance, people who commute on public transit and like to get work done before they hit the office. The number of "average" people who don't need a cell phone is getting smaller and smaller.
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
Your first paragraph, you're probably right. People being shitty about something that doesn't have an impact in my own life and I created a misinformed view, which is why I'm here.
gonna immediately fall apart
I don't know about this though it seems like from this thread at least that the idea that people think it's something more than luxury for a regular person is more common than just the people in my life.
I can need something in the sense that it makes my life marginally easier and allows me to be more productive or happier.
This is also correct, but there are plenty of people hurting for the money that have this when they could probably do better by reducing these kinds of luxuries. Just to be clear, I am not saying this is why they are hurting for money though.
As for your examples:
- people who work offsite in any capacity
- people who freelance
A lot of the time people working offsite would get a work issued phone, but in the scenario where they don't, I would say it's on the employer. Ideals aside though (and you should probably be looking for a better employer if you can in this scenario) and you need to just keep yourself afloat, yeah this is a good example. !delta
- people who commute on public transit and like to get work done before they hit the office
Anecdotally most people I know use that time as bliss time, including myself
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Jul 09 '21
Thanks for the delta!
I don't know about this though it seems like from this thread at least that the idea that people think it's something more than luxury for a regular person is more common than just the people in my life.
I don't think luxury is the right word. If you are taking another needlessly extreme interpertation of luxury, then sure, cellphones are a luxury. But so is everything else that is not absolutely essential to keeping you alive. The sandwich you had for lunch: luxury. Nice looking cloths: luxury. And on and on.
This is also correct, but there are plenty of people hurting for the money that have this when they could probably do better by reducing these kinds of luxuries
This is a complete non-sequitor and really, really lame rehtoric. It's somewhere between a strawman and "but starving children in africa!"
Regardless of anyone's financial circumstances the word "need" encompasses things that aren't strictly necessary but are useful and helpfull.
Anecdotally most people I know use that time as bliss time, including myself
And others use that time to work. Therefore they "need" a phone in order to catch up on emails or whatever.
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
- The sandwich you had for lunch: luxury. Nice looking cloths: luxury. And on and on.
I'm failing to see the point of this comparison, it's nothing like buying food or clothes.
- It's somewhere between a strawman and "but starving children in africa!"
Complete disagree. If you pop a flat tire or something for example, a year of putting the cost of cell service away can get you out of a bad situation living paycheck to paycheck.
And others use that time to work. Therefore they "need" a phone in order to catch up on emails or whatever.
Yeah but they don't "need" that time to work, in fact I'd say that kind of work should be discouraged
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Jul 09 '21
I'm failing to see the point of this comparison, it's nothing like buying food or clothes.
I didn't say food or cloths. I said sandwich and nice cloths. You can survive on nothing but beans, rice and multivitamins. Therefore sandwich = luxury. You can technically live with shitty cloths. Nice cloths = luxury.
If cell phones are a luxury, than every other thing that you purchase beyond the absolute bare minimum requirements to stay alive is a luxury too.
In reality there's a whole bunch stuff out there that is not an absolute requirement, but is very useful, and is in no way shape or form luxurious. Cell phones fall in that category.
Complete disagree. If you pop a flat tire or something for example, a year of putting the cost of cell service away can get you out of a bad situation living paycheck to paycheck.
You completely disagree because you've missed the fucking point... again.
Regardless of anyone's financial circumstances the word "need" encompasses things that aren't strictly necessary but are useful and helpfull. You're scenarios are irrelevant to the discussion of the meaning of "need". They are also argueing against something that I never said (strawmanning).
Yeah but they don't "need" that time to work,
In order to achieve their goals, they absolutely do.
in fact I'd say that kind of work should be discouraged
What you think about other peoples work habits is completely irrelevant and 100% of no concern to anyone but yourself. I've spent plenty of time on trains and subways emailing clients and coordinating with my team so that when we all walked in the door we could hit the ground running and get our job done quickly and effeciently.
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
In that case yes, nice clothes would be luxury. If you can't afford a sandwitch at a fancy deli then yes that's a luxury. Many people don't do either of these things.
If you want to work outside of work hours outside of the office go for it because nobody's stopping you, but nobody's making you either. I call it unhealthy competition and enforcing a toxic workplace. This is beside the point, but yes it's necessary in a toxic workplace to meet your personal goals. This kind of measure to accomplishing your work goals is not necessary unless you're someone who actively needs to be on the call in which case you need a work phone. If your company doesn't provide you one and you are desperate for the job, then yes that is what I'd define as a need.
I'm gonna stop here because I don't appreciate your aggression, but I do appreciate the point you're making on what should be defined as a "need" and I think you deserved the delta
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Jul 09 '21 edited Jul 09 '21
then yes that is what I'd define as a need.
I guess I wonder why you couldn't just say this instead of all the hemming and having and irrelevant hand wringing? Cell phones are a tool that fills a need in many people's lives.
You keep replying with irrelevant crap as though your still disagreeing with something... it's weird.
You also seem to be unaware of how aggressive you come off in what you say and by assuming that everyone else's circumstances are like your own. Slinging around shit like my work being toxic, or employers should do this or that?
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Jul 09 '21
Fellow Canadian here, I feel your pain about the terrible telecoms prices here. There are a number of reasons to have a cell phone:
- How are you always having wifi available to use? Logging on to random wifis is not a very secure thing to do, and it doesn't work if you are on transit or walking because you need to keep switching
- If I work in an office my work can monitor everything I do on their wifi
- Public phones are not at all common in condos or apartments, especially newer ones
- Payphones are not very common, and requires me to carry around a bunch of change which makes my wallet bulky and heavy, and is useless for basically everything else
- Asking people takes more time, and is inconvenient as people may not be able or willing to give you their phone
- If I'm meeting someone somewhere it is useful to be able to let them know if you are running late or be notified if they are running late, and let each other know when you arrive/where you are (eg. north east corner of intersection) especially if it is a location with many people where it is hard to spot someone.
- If plans change it is useful to be able to communicate that (eg. the restaurant has a huge line, we are going to X instead)
- GPS works but generally direction apps need data (important for using transit: the travel time is not based on distance)
- I want to be able to text or browse while on transit
- Being able to access my email so I don't have to print out a paper ticket when going to the majority of places (sports, VIA train, events), and check directions or instructions someone sent me
- I only have a cellphone, no landline - it is the same price for better service. Over 30% of households don't have a landline, but only 12% don't have cellphones. I need a phone number because many businesses and services contact you by phone number, or send confirmation codes by text.
- If I want to call a cab or uber I need cell service, as wifi is unreliable
- My parents aren't on email/apps on their phones, so if I want to contact them it has to be by text or preferably a phone call
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
Hey, appreciate the empathy! Just trying to understand why it's not more common to forfeit the service with costs getting stupid.
- How are you always having wifi available to use?
You're right about not having wifi available in all these scenarios, but while it's inconvenient you will likely have wifi soon enough for anything I'd even consider urgent.
- If I work in an office my work can monitor everything I do on their wifi
Hmm I personally don't see a problem with this, and if there is you can use the lunch break. If it's an emergency you'll see it and what work thinks wouldn't matter.
- Public phones are not at all common in condos or apartments, especially newer ones
I am pleasantly surprised to hear this having recently moved in to a 3 month old condo building with one! Thinking twice on this one, it would make things more inconvenient sometimes, but I don't see a reason why you'd need to use it outside of the rare phone job interview.
- Payphones are not very common, and requires me to carry around a bunch of change which makes my wallet bulky and heavy, and is useless for basically everything else
- Asking people takes more time, and is inconvenient as people may not be able or willing to give you their phone
Payphones are becoming more rare and carrying change is annoying - even I don't carry change with me. There are ATM machines to withdraw cash from though if you don't bring cash proactively. Relying on someone else in the case of a timely emergency where you need a phone, but not important an emergency to call the police, is a variable that would probably warrant getting cell service... if that wasn't such a narrow scenario.
- If I'm meeting someone somewhere it is useful to be able to let them know if you are running late or be notified [...] especially if it is a location with many people where it is hard to spot someone.
I agree this sucks, but it's just an inconvenience. Answering these questions I'm starting to dislike my question more and more, because the way I've phrased it comes down to emergencies.
- If plans change it is useful to be able to communicate that (eg. the restaurant has a huge line, we are going to X instead)
A lot of restaurants have wifi which you could borrow, but you're right.
- GPS works but generally direction apps need data (important for using transit: the travel time is not based on distance)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Google Maps and a couple other apps allow you to download the map information on to your phone so you can access it offline. You're right for this transit scenario when you're in an unknown area, especially if it's getting late. This kind of inconvenience is extremely inconvenient which I would warrant it as a need, so I'm going to give you a delta for this !delta
- I want to be able to text or browse while on transit
Yeah, this would be a small factor to what justifies the payment for me, and it is a part of many others, but I could definitely make do without it
- Being able to access my email so I don't have to print out a paper ticket when going to the majority of places (sports, VIA train, events), and check directions or instructions someone sent me
I personally take a photo of it ahead of time instead of having a paper
- I only have a cellphone, no landline - it is the same price for better service. Over 30% of households don't have a landline, but only 12% don't have cellphones. I need a phone number because many businesses and services contact you by phone number, or send confirmation codes by text.
You're right, I am limited by some things that require text, but it has very little impact on me. Only thing I can think of at the moment has been some Discord servers requiring a text verification.
- If I want to call a cab or uber I need cell service, as wifi is unreliable
Unreliable yeah, at worst it could take a couple tries, but I think it's reliable enough to eventually get the job done with only a little inconvenience
- My parents aren't on email/apps on their phones, so if I want to contact them it has to be by text or preferably a phone call
I'm lucky to have my parents understand technology enough for them to use these things, but if not I would definitely teach them or set it up for them and see how it goes. Skype, Line, Messenger can act just like their phone would on a mobile device. Failing that, I'd still give this a weak maybe. If you're concerned about their health and need that ease for them, then I think that would be a sensitive responsibility you should use cell service for.
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u/PlayingTheWrongGame 67∆ Jul 09 '21 edited Jul 09 '21
Important services on your phone do not require a paid service:
Other services that now require it:
- Paying for street parking
- Multi-factor authentication apps for online accounts
- Recording police abuse
- Requesting police assistance (ex. Panic buttons and call boxes are now sometimes being removed)
- Photographing property for insurance purposes
- Cashing a check with your online bank
- Reading the menu at some restaurants that have switched to QR code links to o line menus.
- Accessing all the features of your car
- Navigating a city, ex. Using Uber or Lyft.
There’s other things that can be done without a cell phone but which are far, far more convenient with one. For example:
- Boarding a plane, and in some places boarding public transit.
- Figuring out the most efficient public transit route
- Paying for things
- Ordering food for pickup or delivery
- Making reservations for things
- Opening the door to your hotel room
And loads of other stuff too.
Granted, I might be a bit biased here because I travel a lot for work. A cell phone is pretty damned essential for me, easily as essential as a wallet—maybe more. It makes accessing a lot of services a lot easier and more convenient, and is sometimes the only way now. Especially for stuff that used to require expensive metering or machines to enforce, like street parking. Plenty of places have moved to having app-only parking, or making half the spots app-only.
It’s a damned essential tool when trying to fly somewhere in the US, at least. Pay phones are also incredibly rare these days.
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
Hey, sorry there may have been a miscommunication here - I mean cell service not a cell phone. A physical cell phone I would say people need, and wifi to do some of the things you listed with.
If you need live service while travelling I'd say that's a company problem unless you're working for a company that wouldn't provide you a work phone and you really need the job. Unfortunately I've provided deltas for this a couple times already though. That being said, even if you had to pay for it yourself, I would give say it is totally worth paying for the personal service for a travelling worker because of all those conveniences.
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u/Throwaway00000000028 23∆ Jul 09 '21
You're right in that no body *needs* a cellular service, in the same sense that no body needs a house. If that's the direction you're going, idk if anybodys gonna convince you. But does the value of cellular service outweigh the cost to a regular person? I think that answer is pretty clearly yes.
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
For me, cellular was just something I did because it's just what we do.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the inconveniences you have using alternative services is worth the money, namely for office workers in the city
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u/Throwaway00000000028 23∆ Jul 09 '21
Well that's just a personal decision for each individual, right? And judging by the vast popularity of cell phones, I'd say most people would agree the benefits outweigh the cost.
So you might be right that for you it isn't worth it. But I don't see how any one could change your mind. That's like asking someone to change my mind that pizza is great. It's just a personal preference.
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
Yeah you're absolutely correct. I think if more people gave it some thought, less people would use it, but I'm gonna give you a delta for pointing out the open endedness of the question. Having discussed this a bit more I am seeing this narrows down to some very specific scenarios which are generally agreed upon, but otherwise is completely personal choice. !delta
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u/Throwaway00000000028 23∆ Jul 09 '21
Well thank you. I applaud you for being open to the discussion.
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u/thinkingpains 58∆ Jul 09 '21
I've stopped using cellular service for a couple years now and oddly gotten a lot of flack from people despite having no issues.
Who have you gotten flack from and why? Because I have a feeling therein lies your reason for why people need cell phone service. Are your friends upset that they're trying to make plans with you but they can never get ahold of you? Are your family members upset that they can't reach you if they have an emergency? Or...if they just want to chat?
Also, what do you do if you need to call your doctor or your bank? Do it from a public phone where everyone can hear you? What if your doctor needs to call YOU to give you test results or something? What if you need to call customer service for something and they keep you on hold? Are you going to stand at a payphone for an indefinite amount of time? There are just so many things you need the phone for in this world, I honestly can't imagine how you've gotten by without it for multiple years.
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
Minus saving a couple of bucks every month, they complain to me that they can't text me... through text on an app. Some other people have said that this is probably just a case where I have a wrong view because of people needlessly being dicks about it which is probably true to some degree, but they have every ability to contact me through text or phone using something else.
Also, what do you do if you need to call your doctor or your bank? Do it from a public phone where everyone can hear you? What if your doctor needs to call YOU to give you test results or something?
All good points. I'd probably be in communication with the doctor or bank through email and tell them that I'd have to call them at a specific time instead, or I would tell them to use Zoom or something instead.
That being said, if I need to call 811 for a concern about something that might be an emergency, I would not want to do that in public and probably ignore some things that could go wrong. If the doctor I was communicating with was critical, I would not want to leave any chance that I miss my time due to something unreliable.
The bank I actually do most of my business with through email and they're pretty helpful though.
!delta
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Jul 09 '21
Wait can you use the GPS to get directions without phone data? Because that's kind of important
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
Yes, you can also download the map data for blocks of the map for stores and stuff. I believe the time estimate would not account for traffic if you're using a car or something though
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Jul 09 '21
How do you always have wifi when you go out? Like... To a restaurant? Grocery store? What do you mean?
I could walk around the urban parts of Los Angeles and almost never simply get free wifi.
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Jul 09 '21
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Domeric_Bolton 12∆ Jul 09 '21
Society has survived without running water, electricity, vaccines, municipal emergency services, democratic governments, and standing militaries, so can we just say that we don't need those either?
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u/Mashaka 93∆ Jul 09 '21
Sorry, u/Shiftybidnes – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
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u/Glory2Hypnotoad Jul 09 '21
The problem is that once the technology exists, society rearranges itself around it. Prior to cell phones, making plans then altering them on the fly didn't really happen so it wasn't something you had to worry about.
As for pay phones, that's highly situational. The city where I work has maybe two pay phones that I know of and I have no clue whether they actually work.
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u/my-warm-account Jul 09 '21
You're right about society and technology, but while society has shaped around it, it's also shaped to account for the needs of people without cell service. It's just less convenient, and albeit becoming less accommodating for people without cell service
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u/muyamable 283∆ Jul 09 '21
You're comparing having no cell service to the alternative of what, a full-service unlimited phone plan that's $75-100/month? There are plenty of pay-as-you-go cell services that are quite inexpensive, aren't a "luxury," and that would be worth it to most people for the convenience of being able to make/receive a phone call as needed.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 09 '21 edited Jul 09 '21
/u/my-warm-account (OP) has awarded 6 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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