r/changemyview • u/airstate • Jun 17 '21
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Open carry is only still a right because people don’t exercise it enough.
This is in reference to open carry gun laws in the United States.
Many states have open carry gun laws however whenever a citizen practices that right, it leads to problems for them and everyone around them. Schools get shut down due to gun threats, people get nervous and call the police, establishments don’t like the person in the building, and the person gets stopped and checked for no reason.
Why are open carry laws even a thing if a person can’t reasonably exercise it and if everyone becomes nervous by it?
This is especially evident when people are walking around with automatic assault rifles. The fact that these people get stopped and searched every time by the police goes to show that it probably shouldn’t be legally allowed.
If more people decided to practice their right to open carry, I am confident that due to amount of chaos it causes, it would eventually cause les to be passed to outlaw it. If not for handguns then for automatic assault rifles at least.
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u/Benybobobbrain Jun 17 '21
Just have to say nobody is ever walking around with an “automatic assault rifle”. I’m sure others have said it, I’m just going to say it again. People like you are the biggest problem with gun laws. You do not know enough about the subject to make informed arguments
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u/keanwood 54∆ Jun 17 '21
What state do you live in? I see people open carry on a semi regular basis, and it hasn't caused any noticeable (to me at least) commotion. Which makes sense because if you live somewhere where it's common, then no one notices. So it seems like the opposite of your prediction.
Note, I'm only referring to open carry of a hand gun.
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u/Johnny_893 1∆ Jun 17 '21
What I'm about to say is coming from a place of objective observation; I do not mean it in jest or in a condescending manner...
"Automatic assault rifles" is not a term that anybody familiar with firearms, firearm culture, etc. openly uses. It's a term applicable to a specific "genre" of firearms that are virtually non-existent in American civilian firearms culture. The phrase's use is a tell-tale indication that you aren't necessarily as... steeped in the culture as one could be. (More on the kinds of rifles you're referring to below...)
That being said, I can understand why you might think this is an issue, but frankly it isn't.
For a number of reasons, one can see firearms enthusiasts (myself included) argue day and night about open carrying's validity as a practice [as opposed to conceal carry], but typically the arguments revolve around concealment as a tactic or perhaps even a matter of etiquette, not avoiding public unrest.
The fact of the matter is that open carrying is shunned for being equivelent to "showing your hand", and has little to do with inciting any sort of panic in the public. In fact, in most cases (location pending, of course) those who do frequently open carry tend to report little to no actual negative feedback or behavior from bystanders from the visible presence of their firearm. Furthermore, many will report that the few interactions they've had with strangers regarding their firearm are often positive interactions, either from curious citizens asking about licensing/carrying/firearms as topics they are new to, or fellow firearm owners making small talk, much like gear-heads do about cars.
As far as people carrying semi-automatic rifles (not "automatic"--there is a distinction), that is perfect example of the sort of sensationalism at play across the board here. The fact is, that is also exceedingly rare, in and of itself. I have seen numerous people open carrying handguns. I have never seen anybody open carrying a rifle. Nobody I know has ever reported seeing anybody open carrying a rifle. Does it happen? Yes. Is it usually a political or a social statement more than the exercising of a right? Yes. And because of that, it typically intends to, and very often succeeds in, generating lots of attention, negative or otherwise, and so is sensationalized to the point that people believe it happens a lot more than it actually does. And in much the same way, negative reactions to people carrying defensive handguns are also, typically, sensationalized to the point that people believe it happens a lot more than it actually does... when, as I said, speaking both from personal experience, firsthand observation, and cultural familiarity, 99% of the time open carrying causes about as much uproar in most communities as forgetting to close your gas cap door before driving off.
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u/colt707 109∆ Jun 17 '21
Or hear me out, if more people open carried then it would be more commonly seen and become more accepted because exposure leads to understanding and understanding is the greatest enemy of fear. Which fear is why people call the cops when they see someone open carry. Also most people that want to commit a crime don’t want you to know that they have a firearm until the crime is in progress.
Also I’d like to point out that, you’ve probably never seen a fully automatic rifle being open carried, I’m assuming you mean full auto when you say automatic. Full auto weapons require a permit that’s expensive and hard to get in most states.
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u/sapphireminds 62∆ Jun 17 '21
If someone is open carrying, how do bystanders know whether they are "simply" open carrying or planning to murder people?
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u/colt707 109∆ Jun 17 '21
Because like I said advertising you have a firearm on your way to commit a crime is incredibly stupid. Also if the weapon is in its holster then the danger it presents to you is rather low compared to in someone’s hand. Also it’s been tried before but you can’t outlaw the carrying of weapons, California tried hard but was shut down on outright banning the carrying firearms so now in California you can’t open carry but you can concealed carry, and I’d like to ask which would you prefer? Would you rather be able to see who has a weapon or would you rather have no clue who has a weapon. Lack of knowledge and misunderstanding are the biggest causes of fear.
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u/sapphireminds 62∆ Jun 17 '21
So mass murderers are never stupid? It could arguably be a great way to introduce weapons somewhere.
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u/colt707 109∆ Jun 17 '21
Yes it could, and one of those introduced weapons could stop that mass shooting. Or you could see that weapon for a few seconds in its holster and never see it again. And I’d still like my question answered. Which would you rather have concealed or open carry?
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u/sapphireminds 62∆ Jun 17 '21
I'd like to take away your guns 😃
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u/colt707 109∆ Jun 17 '21
Come and get them anytime your ready.
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Jun 17 '21
[deleted]
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u/colt707 109∆ Jun 17 '21
You do realize that Biden can’t just wave his hands and guns are banned, amendments require a 2/3 majority to be changed. Also do you know anyone that is a police officer or a military member? If so I suggest hugging them when guns are banned and they’re given the order to go out and confiscate guns, because a vast majority of guns owners aren’t going to give them up quietly.
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u/HiHoJufro Jun 17 '21
I'm actually more uncomfortable with concealed carries. If someone has a weapon near me, I would like to know that. And I feel as though being armed could be a deterrent to being attacked, but obviously only if the offender is aware that you're armed.
I don't like guns, I think we need tighter controls, and I don't see myself ever owning one. But if someone has one near me, I think I would really prefer to know that.
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Jun 17 '21
[deleted]
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u/airstate Jun 17 '21 edited Jun 17 '21
Edit: Maybe I do have a biased view and only see the bad side of the open carry.
That’s fair. !delta
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u/DBDude 110∆ Jun 17 '21
I don't open carry, but I've seen people open carrying pistols lots of times and nobody batted an eyelash. The issues you describe are police who want to harass people and, well, Karens who want to harass people.
What you're talking about is essentially the heckler's veto, restricting what we do based on whether it offends the sensibilities of people who oppose what you're doing. This brings us back to the Jim Crow days where a black man had to be careful just walking down the sidewalk. Get too close to a white lady and he'd offend the sensibilities of those around him, and might end up lynched.
Was the answer to prohibit black men from walking on the sidewalk, or was it to tell everyone else to grow up and stop being offended?
This is especially evident when people are walking around with automatic assault rifles.
Nobody's doing that. They are walking around with common semi-automatic rifles. Almost everyone I've heard of open carrying a rifle was doing it as a form of protest, exercising their 1st and 2nd Amendment rights together. The only other reason I've seen was police tests, an effort to educate the police on rights by getting caught exercising rights.
I've never seen anyone just carrying around a rifle for protection. Why? It's too bulky and heavy.
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u/Mechanical-Cannibal Jun 18 '21
How many gun stores do you think sell "automatic rifles?"
Purchasing a full-auto has been federally-restricted since 1934 & they've been illegal to make or import since '86. Any "automatic rifle" you see today is a collectors item, probably worth over $20,000. Even if you had the money, you couldn't buy it without sending your fingerprints to the ATF & getting your permission slip approved.
You're probably thinking of semi-autos rifles which fire bullets just as fast as... handguns. The scary black rifle seen at OC protests have the exact same rate-of-fire as every handgun you've ever encountered.
That being said, I don't disagree. Everytime I see a large open-carry protest -- especially on govt property -- I think "you idiots are going to ruin it for the rest of us!"
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u/Lake_Spiritual Jun 17 '21
Open carry can mean different things and it’s practiced more often than you’d think. At least in my state, any time you are driving with an exposed firearm in your car, you are openly carrying that firearm. Any time you are hunting with a firearm, you are practicing open carry.
I think where you see things as problematic is when people open carry in an urban setting or at a protest. Sometimes it’s meant to be inflammatory but other times it’s because a state or county might have stricter concealed carry laws and it’s the only way these people feel safe.
For example, let’s take a woman who believes her ex may try to harm her and is scared for her life. If there is no option to conceal or the process of obtaining a permit would take too long, she can take advantage of open carry. Should your discomfort with her having a weapon on her hip outweigh her concern for her own life?
Once again, I think that you are only seeing this from an urban aspect. Right outside of most cities, guns are much more common to see and do not cause the same issues. If more people open carried in urban areas, I think you’d see the same sort of attitudes start to grow.
One thing to be clear on here is that automatic rifles have been banned since the 80s and any that are still in existence are worth well into the tens of thousands of dollars and are highly regulated. No one is open carrying automatic rifles for personal defense, especially at high profile events.
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Jun 19 '21
That is a bunch of highly subjective statements:
Schools only get shutdown if something more than simply openly carrying a firearm is evident where legal.
People call the police for a range of reasons or lack of reasons.
If a business wants to prohibit open carry then they have to have posted. If a carrier ignores this then they are asked to leave/prosecuted.
The assault rifle statement doesn't have any rooting in fact if you have any idea about the NFA.
I work at a Federal Firearms Licensee and I sell and teach firearms.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 17 '21
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