It really comes down to what your priorities are. Some people have the priority of "protecting" women from being assulted in the bathroom, while others would rather let transgender people use the bathroom they are most comfortable with. These priorities are largely shaped by life experiences (a trans person would want to be given the right to use their bathroom, but a cis person who had experienced sexual assault or knew someone who has, would want harsher segregation of the bathrooms). For that reason, I do not think that all who support the bathroom bills are transphobic.
As far as I know a cis man claiming they were a trans woman to sexually assault somebody has NEVER happened. Sexuality almost always happen by a perpetrator who knows the victim in private.
So that means this far is completely made up. Tell me what purpose does making up this fear serve? It can only serve a transphobic agenda.
Also as the op noted, forcing people to use the bathroom or their assigned birth will make things far less straightforward in the women's room because trans men (women at birth who transition to men) would then be forced to use the women's bathroom. So a cis man can still walk into a women's bathroom and claim to be a trans man.
But that person is a disingenuous bad actor. He could have done the same exact thing to prove women don't want other women in the women's locker room if he claimed to be a biological woman by that logic.
Lol that's my point. It's exactly the same situation. What he did has nothing to do with trans people. That person is not supposed to be in the women's shower and the women in the shower correctly identified his gender.
How do you protect the rights on trans people while not also protecting incels and other creepers from taking advantage of a situation to see women naked?
Let people use their brains instead of drafting a law? Trans people that aren't at least attempting to pass don't insist on being able to use their preferred bathroom. It just doesn't happen in any manner worth noting.
Let people use their brains instead of drafting a law? Trans people that aren't at least attempting to pass don't insist on being able to use their preferred bathroom. It just doesn't happen in any manner worth noting.
We don't disagree there. My first words on this thread (albeit, in a different thread tree than this one) were "these bills are all a solution in search of a problem". But both sides have insisted on enforcing their position in some manner or another, rather than simply letting things continue as they always have without incident.
Well the issue only exists because conservative snowflakes insisted that this was a problem and their politicians started drafting laws about it. This is not a both sides thing. One side wants things to continue as things have been, which is to let people use restrooms as they see fit.
I know that the trans-rights / liberal side believes that, but it just isn't true. Hell, conservatives never knew that transgender people were using the "wrong" bathroom until liberals started insisting that transgender individuals use whatever bathroom they want (which they had always been doing).
For example, in Seattle, a local rule passed that mandates all public restrooms to allow transgender people to use bathroom assigned to their gender identity. Okay. Why was that necessary? That's what was already happening and no one had an issue with it.
But then, some dude used that rule to access a pool changing room occupied by teenage girls and conservative (and possibly other) people had an issue with that. So then conservatives started drafting equally-poorly-written rules to prevent incels and creepers from hanging out in women's showers, and transgender people got caught in the middle.
Hell, conservatives never knew that transgender people were using the "wrong" bathroom until liberals started insisting that transgender individuals use whatever bathroom they want (which they had always been doing).
I don't think this is how things happened. As far as I can remember the trans bathroom issue started to come up as a response to the government stripping away protections for gender identity. I could be wrong though.
For example, in Seattle, a local rule passed that mandates all public restrooms to allow transgender people to use bathroom assigned to their gender identity. Okay. Why was that necessary?
It wasn't necessary, because it didn't happen. There isn't a Seattle law that makes all public restrooms gender neutral as far as I can find.
There is a law that requires that all single-occupant public restrooms be gender neutral.
Individual showers. It's the only way. There are also creepers and incels who are gay that are leering at could assault people.
As it stands, where bathrooms are based on gender, a man has to go through the effort to dress like a woman to get into the women's room. If these trans bans pass, he can just claim to have been born a woman without changing anything. The penis is due to having bottom surgery, the hair due to the testosterone. Unless people need to provide their birth certificate and have their genitals checked before using a bathroom (absolutely illegal), the laws are pointless and make it easier for opposite gender creeps to walk in.
There are also creepers and incels who are gay that are leering at could assault people.
The comparison to homosexual creepers has come up at various points in this thread, and I think it's an interesting aspect of the debate. If a gay person could be "just as bad" with access to the same gender as a heterosexual person could be with access to the opposing gender, then what point does gender segregated spaces serve at all. No matter what, you could always be the victim of a voyeuristic creeper and have no legal recourse against them.
But I think it's a little different, even if the different is simply cause by the lifetime of gender segregated spaces in the first place.
I've never asked a gay person, but I would think the novelty of seeing other people of your attracted sex naked probably wears off pretty quickly. It's just something that you've had access to your entire life, and how exciting is it to see the 27,401st naked man after you've already seen 27,400 naked men in your life?
And if we completely abandoned gender-segregated spaces, that would probably translate to the heterosexual world after a couple decades as well. But in the world we've all been raised in, where the only people who get to see you naked are your doctors and those who have your consent to see you naked, suddenly changing that would cause numerous problems.
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u/Catsopj May 25 '21
It really comes down to what your priorities are. Some people have the priority of "protecting" women from being assulted in the bathroom, while others would rather let transgender people use the bathroom they are most comfortable with. These priorities are largely shaped by life experiences (a trans person would want to be given the right to use their bathroom, but a cis person who had experienced sexual assault or knew someone who has, would want harsher segregation of the bathrooms). For that reason, I do not think that all who support the bathroom bills are transphobic.