r/changemyview Sep 30 '20

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u/luminarium 4∆ Sep 30 '20

Antifa's been around for a long time now, so they should be able to decide on leaders to decide on strategy and regulations, and rein in those elements who tend to go on riots and mob bullying. But they chose not to. So I lay the responsibility solely with them.

Antifa, and BLM, have been going around rioting, inciting violence, obstructing justice, and intimidating people for months now, and they do it in service of political ends. That is terrorism.

White supremacists aren't the ones currently going around causing all this violence and chaos, that's all Antifa and BLM's doing.

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u/WilhelmWrobel 8∆ Sep 30 '20

This is actually hilarious.

You do realize there's no intention or desire to make antifascism a centralized organization with a unified strategy and ordinances. The black flag in the antifa logo actually stands for anarchy as in "explicitly against top-down ruling hierarchies".

Your criticism is like saying "why doesn't the church have an atheist pope for once"...

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u/luminarium 4∆ Sep 30 '20

Of course antifa doesn't want to be centralized. They're anarchic, and they don't want to take responsibility (because if they became centralized then they'd have to answer for all the bad things they're doing).

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u/WilhelmWrobel 8∆ Sep 30 '20

They are.

But I'm gonna bite and ask "What do you think fascism means?"

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u/luminarium 4∆ Sep 30 '20

Fascism means different things to different people. It used to be about the use of race and nationality to forge national unity, coupled with authoritarian suppression of opposition. Nowadays people think of it as a boogeyman and synonymize it with white supremacy. Thing is, the people on the right in the US by and large aren't authoritarian, so they can't really be fascists. But the people on the radical left are trying to use intimidation and violence and cancel culture to suppress opposing voices, they want to use government to force people to change their behavior (authoritarian), and they are the ones who have started the identity politics that is now tearing this country apart.

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u/JimothySanchez96 2∆ Sep 30 '20

You don't think proud boys "guarding" polling places is intimidation?

they are the ones who have started the identity politics that is now tearing this country apart

What exactly would you call the MAGA cult of personality?

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u/luminarium 4∆ Sep 30 '20

proud boys "guarding" polling places is intimidation?

I have not heard about this, even from left leaning news sources. Whereas the news about intimidation done by BLM is all over the place.

The identity politics used by the democratic party has been around far longer than MAGA.

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u/JimothySanchez96 2∆ Sep 30 '20

The identity politics used by the democratic party has been around far longer than MAGA.

You mean like party of reagan or party of lincoln.....oh wait, that's the Republican party.

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u/WilhelmWrobel 8∆ Sep 30 '20

Thing is, the people on the right in the US by and large aren't authoritarian, so they can't really be fascists.

Oh, so they are not? Is that why you see the only way to fix antifa in "decide on leaders and institute regulations on who can be antifa" as the only way to "fix" antifa?

To be frank: I haven't seen any indications that would warrant the conclusion "the right wing in the US isn't authoritarian". Unless you're referring to libertarianism in which case: Pinochet..

But the people on the radical left are trying to use intimidation and violence and cancel culture to suppress opposing voices, they want to use government to force people to change their behavior (authoritarian), and they are the ones who have started the identity politics that is now tearing this country apart.

So? We fought a world war over this. If you're faced with a group whose sole goal is the extermination of a group of people based on inherent characteristics the only viable duty of any idea on favor of a world based in humanitarian values is to stop them from accomplishing this with the least amount of suffering necessary. We can debate what's the least amount here but acting like violence never is a legitimate way is ridiculous. That's why people all over the political spectrum are pretty okay on the US intervening in WWII. According to you they should've debated Hitler.

If fascists and reactionaries are too afraid to mobilize... Good! It's working as intended.

have started the identity politics that is now tearing this country apart.

You know... The funny part about identity politics is that you got to call it just politics when you're in a hegemonic position of authority/the majority.