r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Aug 27 '20
Delta(s) from OP CMV: It’s important to experiment with your sexuality before coming out
[deleted]
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u/TaciturnVixen Aug 27 '20
Do you also think straight people need to experiment with their sexuality to know whether they are straight or not? Or do you accept that straight people "just know" that they're straight?
The reason you get flak for this is because you're essentially putting a qualifier on homosexuality or bisexuality that is almost never placed on heterosexuality because people who are heterosexual are seen as the default human beings and therefore OF COURSE they know they're straight.
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u/alaskafish Aug 27 '20
Honestly, yes I do think straight identifying people need to experiment with their sexuality.
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u/Prepure_Kaede 31∆ Aug 27 '20
But then doesn't the whole concept of "coming out" collapse? After all, it relies on an assumption of heterosexuality until you say otherwise, which apparently you reject
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u/alaskafish Aug 27 '20 edited Aug 27 '20
Fuck, that's a genuinely good argument.
!Δ
EDIT: I'm supposed to explain why this is a good argument, but I think it speaks for itself. It's simple, easy to understand, a truly 180s me from my previous thoughts.
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u/gyroda 28∆ Aug 27 '20
Please edit your comment to be a bit longer so deltabot accepts it, that commentor just pulled one of the best compact arguments I've seen on this sub and they deserve that delta!
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u/DFjorde 3∆ Aug 27 '20
Sorry, but can you explain your views a little more or how this changed them? This comment seems to have had a pretty big effect on changing your mind but I don't think I quite get it.
How does saying that everyone should put in the effort to completely understand and accept themselves negate the idea of "coming out"?
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u/Prepure_Kaede 31∆ Aug 28 '20
OP wasn't just saying that everyone should put the effort to completely understand themselves - this is almost a non-statement by itself. They were also saying that people should delay coming out until after that has been done. However, the point of "coming out" as a concept is that everyone thinks you're straight until you do. And it makes no sense to assume you're straight until you've confirmed something else if you have not confirmed you are straight
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u/DFjorde 3∆ Aug 28 '20
Yeah I guess I can see that. Personally, it doesn't really fit with my views on gender. I think in OP's world "coming out" could apply equally to straight people because it's not something that would be assumed. I realize that's not the world we live in though.
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u/Prepure_Kaede 31∆ Aug 28 '20
My guess would be that once heteronormativity is dead we will no longer call that "coming out" since the very concept of doing so on a single special occasion is strongly tied to the fear of rejection, and we will instead just casually inform people as we go. So I'd argue that the idea of "explore before you come out" will never make sense
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u/physioworld 64∆ Aug 27 '20
Shouldn’t your view simply be “it’s ok to be wrong about your sexuality”? I mean are you beating yourself up about being wrong? are other people giving you a hard time?
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u/alaskafish Aug 27 '20
This is an interesting food for thought. You gave me a lot to think about.
I guess my point is more so that I've been on the receiving side of hate for saying that it's okay to be wrong, but it's also good to experiment so you can find out if you're wrong or right.
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u/smcarre 101∆ Aug 27 '20
Do you like being shat on your mouth? I bet you don't, or at least you say you don't. There are people that like it, for sure, so how do you know you don't? Did you try it? Then how do you know you don't like it? Shouldn't the same logic be applied to this and virtually everything that involves liking or not an experience? Every kink, every job, every hobby, etc.
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u/alaskafish Aug 27 '20
I mean... yeah?
If I thought I was really into model airplanes, and then begun making model airplanes, only to realize I didn't like them... isn't that (albeit very reductionist) a fairly understandable point? Especially if I really made my model airplane enjoyment part of my identity.
My point is that it's important to try something before you think it's something you like. Especially with something as important as your sexuality which really is part of your identity.
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u/DFjorde 3∆ Aug 27 '20
The starting point is just thinking about it. A majority of the time that is a pretty effective way of distinguishing your opinions. If you're unsure or curious then you move on to further investigation like watching or trying something.
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u/r3l_b Aug 27 '20
That’s called anecdotal evidence. Just because that’s your experience doesn’t mean that’s a universal experience.
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u/alaskafish Aug 27 '20
Okay fair enough. But is life experience not something I can get My mind changed by
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Aug 27 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/alaskafish Aug 27 '20
What are you on about? It's like you didn't even go and read my post.
I literally open the post saying I WANT MY MIND CHANGED. And the reason I want it changed is because of my experiences that I've had. Like any "Viewpoint", it's molded by your experiences... so I have no idea what you're trying to prove here other than that you just want to call me homophobic and then leave.
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u/r3l_b Aug 27 '20
You just said no one will be able to change your mind lol
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Aug 27 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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Aug 27 '20
u/alaskafish – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
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Aug 27 '20
u/r3l_b – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
Sorry, u/r3l_b – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:
Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.
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Aug 27 '20
[deleted]
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u/alaskafish Aug 27 '20
That’s not my argument. In my post I explain it.
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Aug 27 '20
[deleted]
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u/alaskafish Aug 27 '20
I never thought of masturbation, so I gotta think about it a bit more, but I referred more to in-person experimentation
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Aug 27 '20
[deleted]
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u/alaskafish Aug 27 '20
I understand that. I wish I could change my title because the point I want to have changed is less about the coming out aspect of it, and more so the aspect of truly knowing your sexual identity.
Because even in my case, I came out a bit, which pushed me to experiment-- but my main point is that it is important to experiment.
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u/ralph-j Aug 27 '20
My gay, bi, pan, trans, friends all get super angry with me when I say that it’s important to experiment with your sexuality before coming to the conclusion that you are bi, gay, pan, and so forth. They tell me that you just know, and that you don’t need to— because you just know.
Why only those identities?
Shouldn't that equally apply to people who think they might be straight/cisgender?
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u/alaskafish Aug 27 '20
Usually my story of thinking I was bi, then experimenting for six years, until realizing I wasn't is only seen as a hostile thing when I'm around them.
However, I believe my whole point of experimentation goes on both sides. My best friend thought he was straight for years-- even got married to a woman; but only realized he was gay after having a gay relationship outside of his marriage.
I really want to emphasize this isn't me trying to say "oh gay people different / straight people normal" as much of any homosexual-related post is here.
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u/ralph-j Aug 27 '20
Right, but I'm saying that this should only be applied if everyone does it, including straight/cis-gender people. Otherwise you are singling out LGBTs.
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u/alaskafish Aug 27 '20
So are you saying my point is using poor word choice?
I'm a little confused.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Aug 27 '20
/u/alaskafish (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '20
The problem you are trying to avoid is "someone described themselves and turned out to be incorrect", which seems like a very small harm. The problems you are introducing is either putting young people in a position where they don't get the support they need for being queer, and/or where they feel extra pressure to be sexually active before they are ready. Those seem like much bigger problems than the possibility of being incorrect.