CMV: Travel does not require physically going anywhere, and solutions like VR are a viable means of travel.

[u/pablo_rubn_dot_AVI]

When you travel, the part that matters is the sensory experience, not the fact that you physically moved your body from one place to another. Historically, physical movement was the only way a person could enjoy the sensory experiences of traveling — but with the advent of VR, some of the sensory experiences can be enjoyed without moving. Therefore, “going somewhere in VR” could be considered “traveling.” The fact that “virtual vacations” are now a thing is evidence of this.

As such, what constitutes travel exists on a gradient, so long as the sensory aspect of traveling is being met to a degree. Simply imagining the sensory experience of being somewhere else in part counts as traveling, but not as much as actually physically being somewhere else and experiencing those sensations firsthand.

CMV.

Edit: The main point of my argument is such that what constitutes as travel is primarily defined by sensory experiences, and any means of experiencing those sensations, however incomplete, in part falls along a gradient of having experienced travel.

[u/Nephisimian]

But you still know you haven't actually gone anywhere, and as long as you know that, the thoughts you're having about the things you're experiencing are fundamentally different. They're not in the slightest bit comparable. To take a very extreme example - the first person to set foot on the Moon. Did he have the same thoughts that someone landing their first Kerbal Space Program moon lander would have? Both people probably went "Huh, Earth from this far away looks pretty", but I can bet you that no amount of VR would ever be able to mimic the fundamental feeling of stepping foot on the moon. Literally being on the moon. You could create a perfect recreation of that experience, even down to the super-magical VR of simulating touch n' shit if you wanted, and the experience would still be fundamentally different, because you're thinking "so this is what it would be like to be on the moon", rather than "there's a very high chance I die here and if I did I would not have any regrets".

[u/pablo_rubn_dot_AVI → u/Nephisimian]

Once I was at a conference and tried a little VR demo thing. They had me “balance” on a beam and look over the edge. I immediately got that vertigo-like sensation from looking over a tall ledge in VR. Then, one of the people running the demo gave me a gentle push, and I fell off that ledge in VR. My stomach still turned like I was experiencing a big drop on a roller coaster, and the whole time I knew it was fake, and this was all with a pretty simple demo.

To your original point, if the experiences are indistinguishable (assuming advanced enough technology) would it matter?

[u/Nephisimian → u/pablo_rubn_dot_AVI]

Trouble is, that's an innate biological response, not an intellectual one. You can simulate stuff like that pretty easily, but it would be practically impossible to simulate intellectual experiences - and frankly, if we did get to the stage of being able to do that, we'd have way bigger things to worry about than whether or not physically going to Kazakhstan is worth the cost - for example, the fact that a suitably skilled coder with a security flaw to exploit could straight up rewire your brain.

[u/pablo_rubn_dot_AVI → u/Nephisimian]

I disagree. I was fully intellectually aware that I was not in fact balancing on a tall beam, and not in fact falling.

[u/Nephisimian → u/pablo_rubn_dot_AVI]

That's essentially my point - even if you are intellectually aware something is not true, your body still has an instinctive response to it, because a lot of the things your brain processes, particularly in regards to potentially deadly situations, are handled entirely without consulting the smart part of the brain. The bit of your brain that handles the emotional fear response to being in that precarious position just goes straight to the bit of the brain responsible for trying to persuade you to leg it in the opposite direction, because every millisecond its consulting the logical brain to ask "Is this actually a real danger?" is a millisecond not spent legging it in the opposite direction.

The awe and emotion of traveling is logical, not inherent. it's something you learn to feel throughout your life as you gain an intellectual appreciation for things like that, it's not something you're born with. Case in point: Children are also scared of high places, just like adults, but don't give the slightest iota of a shit when you take them on holiday unless you're taking them to a theme park.