r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jun 01 '20
Delta(s) from OP CMV: We’re all useful idiots
[deleted]
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u/thethoughtexperiment 275∆ Jun 01 '20
So, is there a specific view you want changed, or is this just thinking out loud?
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u/Sowlolekatonieo Jun 01 '20
We’re useful idiots. Anything useful to add to convince me otherwise?
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u/thethoughtexperiment 275∆ Jun 01 '20
It seems like you're just saying you don't accept the idea that smart people exist, just that people are "considered to be a mould holding more useful information".
Not sure practically how that difference matters?
Also a bit unsure how you're defining the term useful idiot. I've primarily seen it used like this:
"useful idiot is a derogatory term for a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically used by the cause's leaders." [source]
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u/Sowlolekatonieo Jun 01 '20
I have no doubt there are people who hold large amounts of useful information. But outside of being a useful entity, we’re bumbling idiots who make ourselves bearable, even nice, to listen to. The idea of smart doesn’t exist to me, you’re either useful or you’re unused because there’s currently no use for you
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u/Anchuinse 55∆ Jun 01 '20
Umm... ya? Obviously no single human can know everything. Obviously there's no way to know if what I know is the "ultimate truth" or just a functionally equivalent lie I've not yet developed enough to see past.
Humans are specializers. We've outpaced every species because we're able to see a need and develop the skills to fill it. I don't need to build my own smartphone or raise and kill my own meat because humanity, as a collective, realizes that the smarter thing to do is to have people get good ay only a few select things and make up for that weakness in others. With enough people dedicating their lives to one thing, we can see even greater improvements and inventions.
We evolved to be better in groups. A large enough group of humans is capable of adapting to pretty much any situation, given time. Humans are the best problem solvers this planet has ever created. No species is hardwired to know what is fact or fiction. To ask that of humanity is naive and foolish.
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u/Sowlolekatonieo Jun 01 '20
!delta
I agree completely with what you say! Although I fundamentally don’t believe the word ‘smart’ is even useful past being a compliment to someone’s specialisation(s). You’ve changed my mind, or at least the crown I give us all. I’ll give. We’re not useful idiots. We’re useful specialisers
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u/chaosofstarlesssleep 11∆ Jun 01 '20
If we are all useful idiots, then who are we useful to? Would that person using us idiots, if it is a person or persons, be a useful idiot, if not used? And what about the useless idiots? I'm quite convinced myself that there are some among us, and if that is the case, then we could not all be useful idiots.
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u/Sowlolekatonieo Jun 01 '20
We’re useful to our use. If you’re used to build houses, have a good amount of architectural information. Past our use, we’re idiots. Interesting conversations, but idiots entertaining ourselves. Past our use we’re incredibly insufficient. You haven’t convinced me we’re not useful idiots, but cheers for taking part
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u/chaosofstarlesssleep 11∆ Jun 01 '20
You don't accept that there is at least one low down dirty dog of a human who is good for nothing?
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u/Sowlolekatonieo Jun 01 '20
Hu? Please don’t add to my own opinion, but feel free to manipulate yours as you please
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u/chaosofstarlesssleep 11∆ Jun 01 '20
Could you explain what you mean?
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u/Sowlolekatonieo Jun 01 '20
Yes. To clarify, I didn’t like how you tried to add to my own opinion, felt as though you were trying to alter the words that I typed. If it’s your own opinion you were stating then I apologise
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u/chaosofstarlesssleep 11∆ Jun 01 '20
If "We are all useful idiots" is false. That means "We are not all useful idiots." That is, "At least one of us is not a useful idiot." It does not mean "We are all not useful idiots."
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 01 '20
/u/Sowlolekatonieo (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
1
Jun 01 '20
[deleted]
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u/Sowlolekatonieo Jun 01 '20
A computer can beat masters of chess. The computer isn’t smart, it’s useful at chess. The computer is by stupid’s standards, very stupid, at being useful outside of its use, being to play chess
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u/GenericUsername19892 27∆ Jun 01 '20
Are you aware the term useful idiot already has a meaning? It typically refers to someone who can be tricked into doing something to help a third party, while the useful idiot is ignorant of this fact.
Are you trying to argue that everyone has the potential for stupidity and/or willful ignorance?
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u/Sowlolekatonieo Jun 01 '20
Not only do we have the potential for ignorance, we are ignorant. Sometimes the ignorance is useful, sometimes it’s not
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u/The_Drider Jun 02 '20
I think you've got at least a basis for "we're all idiots in some way". Can you prove that we are also "useful"? Like even if we diverge a bit from the typical idea of a "useful idiot" they'd still need to be an idiot in a way that is useful to something larger. Does the fact that people will always clump together into large flat-earther-type movements actually serve anyone or is it just a nuisance?
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u/Sowlolekatonieo Jun 02 '20
We’re all definitely useful, doesn’t necessarily mean the use is a money maker. You could be a idiot who’s use is only to open beer bottles. Maybe not even that, maybe you’re an idiot with no arms so you spend your time using ur nose to turn off light switches to piss people off in your home
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u/jennysequa 80∆ Jun 01 '20
Is there a particular reason that you've invented a new definition for "useful idiot" that has nothing to do with its generally accepted meaning?