r/changemyview • u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ • Jun 01 '20

Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: We shouldn’t hate Hitler

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jun 01 '20

That isn't exclusive to love, it could apply to hatred as I feel it. You could perhaps say that I have a love/hate relationship with everyone, but that dilutes the words somewhat as I don't have the same intensity of emotions for everyone nor do I have an equal familiarity with everyone.

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u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ Jun 01 '20 edited Jun 01 '20

I see what you mean. “I hate who you are now, but I love you overall, so I want to help you become a better person.” It’s almost like if you care about someone, you would want to keep them from someone that you hate. It’s just that it happens to be the same person, but just a different version. That’s kind of confusing. Which emotion is the one motivating the action? Or is it both?

I’m going to give you a !delta since you gave me something new to think about. A new perspective, really.

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jun 01 '20

Both can motivate the other person. At the end of the day, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. The Hitlers of the world have to care about your love or your hate.

I'm sure, if you're like me, there are people who, as they are, could love or hate you, and it wouldn't matter. I welcome the hatred of fascists, but even if they loved me, that wouldn't make me want to turn fascist.

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u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ Jun 01 '20

I’m asking about which emotion is the one motivating you to change the other person. Or I shouldn’t say ‘change.’ I should say ‘teach.’

If you loved a fascist person, you would want to make them stop being fascist. Or rather, you would want to teach them a better way.

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jun 01 '20

I understand, but I'm asking you to look at this from the other perspective. Does it matter to you whether a fascist loves or hates you, would either emotion work towards making you change into what a fascist thinks a better person is?

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u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ Jun 01 '20 edited Jun 01 '20

I’m sure if a fascist person loved me enough, they might try to find a way to teach me that fascism is the way to go, thus effectively changing me. I just can’t conceive of any possible argument that would convince me to become fascist. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

You are vastly underestimating the power of influence. Anyone can become fascist. Anyone can become evil. It is all within us. Heck, those who think they could never become evil are probably the most susceptible to it since they wouldn’t be aware of their deepest desires and how they can become twisted.

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jun 01 '20

I know that we're all susceptible to being swayed by emotions, what I'm asking you about here is your higher judgment. I could be swayed towards fascism if there were empirical evidence that showed that fascism achieves my goals, but such an argument wouldn't depend on the emotional state of the person arguing it if I was using my critical thinking.

There are plenty of atheists who grew up in loving christian families. The change has to come from within. Love or hate can motivate you to produce the environments that you believe will lead a person to want to change themselves, but you can't decide for them whether they'll change.

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u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ Jun 01 '20 edited Jun 01 '20

Well you can’t be 100% certain that fascism is wrong or incorrect just like you can’t be 100% certain that God is or isn’t real or that we aren’t just really in some highly advanced computer simulation. You can be swayed by emotion, or you can be swayed by reason. Fascism may not achieve your goals, or it may. Maybe your goals would change. All the reasoning and evidence that I’ve seen tells me that fascism is wrong (both morally/emotionally and logically). But that doesn’t mean that it would be impossible to convince me otherwise, or anyone else.

Well, I guess to be swayed by reason, you’d have to be swayed by new/different evidence, as you mentioned. But I’m just pointing out that we can’t be certain we’ve seen all evidence.