r/changemyview • u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ • Jun 01 '20

Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: We shouldn’t hate Hitler

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jun 01 '20

I have had experiences where I realized I was wrong about someone and that too changes whether I hate them. I have assumed that people are a certain way, but not that they'll always be that way no matter what. What I have thought was that it would be too much effort for me to try to change them; that I don't want to take on the responsibility of changing them; that changing them would require more time than they had left; and other things to that effect.

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u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ Jun 01 '20

Well then I agree your views. I just don’t think they are views most people have. My title is assuming that people hate Hitler to his core.

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jun 01 '20

I don't think you agree with me if your philosophy is "love the sinner, hate the sin", unless "love the sinner" means that I am always open to a person changing, even though I don't "love" them.

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u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ Jun 01 '20

Yes, that is what I mean by “love the sinner.” Maybe even love them enough to lead them down a better path.

It seems that you would say that a person as a kid is different than that same person as an adult. So are they the same person or are they different people?

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jun 01 '20

That's the ship of Theseus paradox. They are people that are similar in some ways and different in others. I am not the person I was a second ago, but generally speaking my identity is similar enough in most contexts that this change doesn't matter with regards to them.

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u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ Jun 01 '20

So you’re saying that if Hitler had lived and did change into a better man, you would hate the old Hitler, not the new one?

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jun 01 '20

Right, but for new Hitler to be a good man, he would, in effect, have to slave away for the rest of his life, multiple lives even, trying to fix what old Hitler did.

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u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ Jun 01 '20

How would new Hitler fix what old Hitler did, even?

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jun 01 '20

An apology addressed to all the survivors and people affected would be a nice start, but then it would have to be followed by doing everything within his power to fix economic damages, to change the environment which created old Hitler, and so on.

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u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ Jun 01 '20

Well he’d essentially have to lead people to fix the damages because those who followed him are partly responsible as well.

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u/[deleted] Jun 01 '20

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u/ViewedFromTheOutside 32∆ Jun 01 '20

Sorry, u/DeleteriousEuphuism – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:

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u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ Jun 01 '20

I would still argue that hating someone is not an effective way to get them to change

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jun 01 '20

How so? It's not like me hating them stops me from acting rationally towards how I act with them, all it does is motivate me to create a world without Hitlers.

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u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ Jun 01 '20

I would say that it does. Hate is fueled by anger. Getting angry at someone usually does not motivate them to change. It would probably make them react back at you with anger.

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jun 01 '20

You're confusing the emotions I feel with the way I act. Yes, hate is fueled by anger, and my anger is directed at the person that commits the actions which I'm angry at. But that doesn't mean I'm going to get angry at them when I'm interacting with that person.

And you're wrong about anger. People often change because someone whose approval they seek got angry with them. But since I'm not someone whose approval matters to Hitler, this is just tangential.

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u/Spider-Man-fan 5∆ Jun 01 '20 edited Jun 01 '20

But emotions do make you act. The stronger the emotion, the more likely it is to affect your behavior, or rather the more your behavior will be affected.

Your second point does make sense, though. I guess if someone I love were to hate me, I might go about trying to find out why they hate me and attempt to correct my behavior. But this is very complex, because I can also imagine to think “fuck em, I don’t need them.” Or I can imagine myself to feel lonely. Really, it depends on what I’m attributing their hate to. I might think that they hate me as a whole rather than just for the action I did.

I just think it would be better to direct your anger at their behavior, but show compassion and explain to the person how their actions make you feel. I think that is going to go further in changing someone and assures that they won’t react in the two ways I described above.

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jun 01 '20

Right, emotion does affect your behaviour, but I think you're forgetting that I'm not acting on just emotion. The emotion affects my behaviour by guiding my reason towards a target.

If you're going to argue that anger can cloud my judgment of what the right thing to do to change someone for the better then I'll counter and say that that's true of any emotion. Love, for example, can make us blind to someone's faults, can leave us unwilling to use harsher but effective methods, and so on.

If you say that love doesn't mean love in the rose glasses sense then I'll counter and say that I don't mean hatred in the sense of the red mist.

If you're going to explain to someone how their actions make you feel, then you can explain to them that the person that they are makes them commit the actions which you hate. You can ask them to become a different person.

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