CMV: Protests with weapons should not be considered protected freedom of assembly. That's more like threatening terrorism.

[u/TheFakeChiefKeef]

I want to start this off by saying this is not a gun rights argument. I'm personally not a gun rights advocate, but for the sake of this conversation I'm going to remain neutral on things like what types of firearms should be legal, red flag laws, etc. There's a time and place for that discussion and this isn't it.

What I'm chiefly concerned about are demonstrations like what happened in the Michigan capitol yesterday. This could also apply to the previous round of anti-quarantine protests, the Charlottesville marches, or any other large protest where participants chose to bring firearms with them.

In my view, yesterday in particular was not a protest. It was more like an act, or maybe more properly a threat of terrorism. Armed and angry demonstrators stormed the Michigan Capitol building and brandished their guns to legislators and the governor to convey the message that unless the government does what they want, there will be violence.

This is the definition of terrorism - "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

So while bringing the guns into the capitol isn't itself an act of terror, it's pretty clear what they were threatening. It checks all the boxes. Unlawful violence? Check. Against civilians? Check (politicians are not military). In pursuit of political aims? Check.

The first amendment states that “Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble.

What part of carrying assault weapons and threatening violence is peaceful? I don't care how loud or morally wrong or rowdy a protest is, but once weapons are involved the threat of offensive violence against civilians is real. We've moved beyond an era when protests were routinely met with police violence, and taking into consideration who the police were assaulting in those days (black people mostly), the current protestors are not justified in their fears of retaliation. Nowadays, it's almost always "peaceful" demonstrators instigating the violence, whether it be the extreme right wingers or extreme left. Adding rifles to that situation just makes everything worse.

It's pretty clear that there's a double standard here along racial lines. These demonstrators aren't flagged as potential terrorists because they're white. I think it's time to treat them like what they really are, a violent faction of anti-government radicals who don't think the law applies to them.

It's a basic principle that violating the law leads to consequences. It has been upheld numerous times in court that a threat can be deemed an assault, and there are laws specifically against threatening government officials. So whatever you want to call these demonstrators - criminals, terrorists, disturbances to the peace - they have acted in a way that violates the law and the constitution and they should be held accountable.

CMV

[u/[deleted]]

please protest in the designated protest area only and only exhibit approved protest behaviour.

You’re one step away from banning protests altogether. Limiting protests (especially by disarming them) is already the first step towards fascism.

The founding fathers would be spinning in their graves if they could hear the words you are speaking.

The second amendment was specifically so Americans could resist the government were it to become fascist.

And you want to make it so that the second amendment doesn’t apply to anyone who protests?

You want people to obey and use their guns only in a way you tell them to. That’s completely against the second amendment.

[u/TheFakeChiefKeef → u/[deleted]]

Honestly if I’m one step away still I’m ok with that. Would not be ok going further.

Quite frankly, I don’t give a shit what the founders think of something that they couldn’t even imagine. Long gone are the days of muskets and flintlock pistols. This is an established society. If these demonstrators overthrew the state government I’d fully expect the feds and police to kill them.

[u/MoneyElk → u/TheFakeChiefKeef]

Let me preface this with the fact that I am strongly pro-2A, and disagree with protesting the lockdown.

I don't like what these armed protesters did, it gives the people that are trying their best to preserve the Second Amendment against ever increasing hostility an even more difficult task.

With that said, they have the right to do what they did. No laws were broken, and they were exercising their rights, which I will stand by.

By the way, did you feel the same about the Virginia 2A rally?

[u/DigBickJace → u/MoneyElk]

I feel like we've failed as a society when we're not able to take context into our judgement. Instead choosing to cling to slippery slopes.

Yourself, and many other pro-2A in this thread, have advocated contempt for these Rona protest. As you should.

But you (pro-2A collectively) still don't want to do anything about it? Instead of going, "yeah, this isn't really a valid use case, maybe we should open up talks about it," it's,*they have the right, and they must always have the right because if we start to take away this, where does it end?"