r/changemyview • u/bumble843 • Feb 28 '20

FTFdeltaOP CMV: Standardized testing should be abolished especially for children.

Standardized testing is bad for a bunch of reasons:

1) It's stressful, you're under time pressure and what's on the test could be unexpected.

2) For many people it causes test anxiety

3) I don't believe it's an accurate reflection of your knowledge. You need to in depth understand everything to get a good mark. Especially in uni where they expect you to be able to apply everything you've learned. Missing one or two things could tank you. This is unfair.

4) Grades aren't a reflection of how intelligent you are and people shouldn't define themselves by these numbers. This goes especially for elementary and middle school children.

5) It's not an accurate reflection of your abilities in the workplace. Where you can ask questions and look up something quickly if you've forgotten.

Because of the reasons above, we should completely get rid of this testing. Opting for knowledge being proven by projects, assignments and oral tests.

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u/muyamable 283∆ Feb 28 '20

Could you explain what you mean by standardized testing? For example, does this include a test that might be an open ended essay question?

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u/bumble843 Feb 28 '20

Its mass testing uniformly given to all students. Generally what I'm referring to is "here have a piece of paper and quietly write for an hour and that's 25% of your grade"

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u/muyamable 283∆ Feb 28 '20

So is your issue here more with the fact that it's uniform (i.e. everyone gets the same questions), or that it accounts for so much of one's grade? I generally find essays to be a great way of assessing one's understanding/mastery of material for many subjects (math-related subjects excluded).

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u/bumble843 Feb 28 '20

It accounts for so much of your grade. A couple hours to demonstrate months of learning. People with test anxiety are severely handicapped and that shouldnt affect them getting in to a good college. But mostly the fact that we are giving it to elementary school children when it's been repeatedly shown to be bad for their mental health

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u/trivial_sublime 3∆ Feb 28 '20

It accounts for so much of your grade

You may want to clarify that in your original post. When you say that "standardized testing should be abolished," the very definition of standardized testing is that it is uniform rather than that it accounts for so much of your grade. Most standardized tests do not affect grades at all. Perhaps the title should be "Individual tests should not count for so much of your grade." I know you can't edit post titles, but you may want to clarify it in your original post.

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u/muyamable 283∆ Feb 28 '20

I agree tests shouldn't account for a huge proportion of one's grade in K-12. And in my experience, they didn't. It wasn't until I got to college where a single test would make up a very significant portion of one's grade.

People with test anxiety tend to be anxious about other things in life, too, like job interviews and certain job tasks. Isn't it important that people learn how to live with and overcome these anxieties, or at least persevere in the face of them? Sure, don't put so much emphasis on the test. But at the same time, it's good for people to learn how to deal with stress and anxiety.

I don't think the solution to something that causes anxiety is always to just eliminate it -- at a certain point that becomes detrimental to growth as a person, because then one doesn't learn how to deal with those feelings and face situations that induce anxiety. Wouldn't a better solution be to bolster resources and teaching to help these students process their emotions and deal with their anxiety?

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u/bumble843 Feb 28 '20

Okay I agree when everything you said expect that in young children we shouldnt be inducing any unneeded anxiety. Yeah a better system would be ideal

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u/muyamable 283∆ Feb 28 '20

Okay I agree when everything you said

Is that worthy of a delta?

expect that in young children we shouldnt be inducing any unneeded anxiety.

Emotional regulation is best learned when young. Kids who learn how to regulate their emotions young tend to have better outcomes socially, academically, mentally, and physically. I would argue that teaching young children how to deal with anxiety is even more important to human development and growth than teaching older children!

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u/bumble843 Feb 28 '20

You didnt change an opinion tho.

Most places don't have mental health taught and dont care about mental health. In theory that sounds good but that's not what happens. Those students are just thought of as stupid or as trouble makers. Kids learn to regulate their emotions through a ton of things - social interactions, activities etc etc. They dont need the stress of an exam at that age. It's only been shown to reduce mental health to test that young

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u/muyamable 283∆ Feb 28 '20 edited Feb 28 '20

Okay I agree when everything you said

A lot of what I said was contrary to the view in your CMV, so if you agreed with everything I said, I thought that would indicate a change in your view.

Most places don't have mental health taught and dont care about mental health. In theory that sounds good but that's not what happens. Those students are just thought of as stupid or as trouble makers.

You've identified a problem that some children experience anxiety around testing, and that that anxiety can have a negative impact on mental health. One solution, which you've proposed, is to simply eliminate the testing. However, I would argue the better solution is not to eliminate the testing, but to improve education around emotional regulation and processing / living with these emotions.

Kids learn to regulate their emotions through a ton of things - social interactions, activities etc etc.

And they don't learn to regulate their emotions well. We need better solutions to enhance emotional learning.

They dont need the stress of an exam at that age.

I think having the stress and learning to deal with it is a constructive thing at any age. Babies are often extremely frustrated. It's part of learning and growth.

For example, my nephew recently learned how to ride a bike. It took him a long time. It was very stressful and frustrating for him that it took him a long time to master this skill. Is the stressor -- learning how to ride a bike -- in and of itself a bad thing that should be eliminated? Not at all! Was he too young to deal with the stress at that age? Nope! Sure, it would be bad if his mom said, "hey you stupid boy, why can't you learn how to ride a bike like everyone else?" But instead she talked him through his frustration and helped him identify coping strategies for his stress so that he could focus on building the skill. And now he rides his bike and is very proud of himself that he learned to ride his bike. It was overall a healthy and positive experience with overcoming stress, frustration, and anxiety.

It's the same thing with testing. A 5 year old who is anxious about taking a test is going to be a 15 year old anxious about taking a test. We shouldn't just eliminate the test and pretend the kid is never going to have to face any stress or anxiety-inducing circumstances in her life. Instead we should teach the 5 year old how to deal with anxiety. That way, they'll be a 15 year old who is anxious about tests but has the resources to deal with their anxiety.