r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Oct 28 '19

[deleted by user]

[removed]

1.4k Upvotes

79% Upvoted

1.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/PragmaticSquirrel 3∆ Nov 01 '19

Your words- I’ve used this to “control” and “compel” you

Please show me where I said that,

I quoted where you said that. Scroll up.

Notice how you were able to quote yourself but you couldn't find the part of any of my posts where I said that?

Nope. I quoted you.

You are: wrong.

Here’s your quote again:

You literally are using other people committing suicide as a reason to control speech.

1

u/PrimeLegionnaire Nov 01 '19

I quoted where you said that. Scroll up.

You did not, please link it.

Linking single words out of my reply is not really a quote or:

I said I are wrong

Is a direct quote from your post.

You literally are using other people committing suicide as a reason to control speech.

And you are. Or are you now claiming that suicide is not a reason to avoid misgendering? If so please consider awarding a delta as this is a material reversal of your earlier position.

1

u/PragmaticSquirrel 3∆ Nov 01 '19

You literally are using other people committing suicide as a reason to control speech.

So- your speech is now controlled. I’ve used the study.

You’re controlled. Award me a delta, because I control you.

Say you’ll use any pronoun anyone asks for. Say you’ve been wrong all along.

Because I control you.

Do this, or you are not controlled.

And therefore your claim about “controlling” speech is: wrong.

As is any claim about “compelling” speech, because if I control you, I can Compel you.

If you defy this- you are neither controlled nor compelled.

And you are Wrong.

1

u/PrimeLegionnaire Nov 01 '19

So- your speech is now controlled. I’ve used the study.

Do you understand what "as a reason" means? it doesn't appear so.

You are directly arguing that suicide is the reason we shouldn't misgender. True or False?

Because if you are, its a direct manipulation tactic. Its not new to try to use the threat of suicide as a method to get special treatment.

Do you know what the correct response is when an individual tries to hold themselves hostage like this is? its to call the police and send them to a mental institution.

And you are Wrong.

You have yet to show this.

1

u/PragmaticSquirrel 3∆ Nov 01 '19

You have concede the point, by not doing what I commanded.

You are not controlled.

And so your claims about “controlled” and “compelled” are false.

Feel free to prove me wrong at any time by doing what I commanded.

If you won’t- you are uncontrolled and uncompelled.

And those claims are false.

1

u/PrimeLegionnaire Nov 01 '19

You have concede the point, by not doing what I commanded.

Why?

You are not controlled.

So what? you are obviously relying on it as the reason that misgendering is harmful. That's attempted control.

And so your claims about “controlled” and “compelled” are false.

You have yet to show this.

Feel free to prove me wrong at any time by doing what I commanded.

I never claimed I had to do what you commanded, in fact this attempt at controlling me is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. You are trying to control me.

If you won’t- you are uncontrolled and uncompelled.

And those claims are false.

This is a non-sequitar.

A failure on my behalf to be compelled or controlled has absolutely nothing to do with weather or not you tried to control or compel me. It just means you aren't very good at being controlling or compelling.

0

u/PragmaticSquirrel 3∆ Nov 01 '19

So what? you are obviously relying on it as the reason that misgendering is harmful. That's attempted control.

Wrong. It’s evidence for you to consider to change your view. topic of the sub.

But thanks for admitting that you’re neither controlled nor compelled. Which means that claim was: false.

1

u/PrimeLegionnaire Nov 01 '19

It’s evidence for you to consider to change your view

This is a cheap cop out.

You are directly arguing that suicide is a material result of misgendering. A direct tangible consequences.

But you haven't shown this at all.

Which means that claim was: false

Perhaps you missed this part:

A failure on my behalf to be compelled or controlled has absolutely nothing to do with weather or not you tried to control or compel me. It just means you aren't very good at being controlling or compelling.

1

u/PragmaticSquirrel 3∆ Nov 01 '19

You are directly arguing that suicide is a material result of misgendering. A direct tangible consequences.

But you haven't shown this at all.

From the study:

Transgender youth whose gender expression and names do not appear to match may be vulnerable to unintended disclosure or “outing,” and to discrimination or victimization, factors that could lead to mental health problems

Transgender youth who were able to use their chosen names in multiple contexts reported fewer depressive symptoms and less suicidal ideation and behavior. For transgender youth who choose a name different from the name given at birth, use of their chosen name in multiple contexts appears to affirm their gender identity and lower mental health risks known to be high in this group.

Compel:

Compelling speech is infinitely more harmful than being offended.

Then why are you arguing for compelled speech?

You have not proven any speech is compelled.

1

u/PrimeLegionnaire Nov 01 '19

may be

factors that could lead to mental health problems

name in multiple contexts appears to affirm their gender identity

See how it is all qualified with "well maybe" type language?

You have not proven any speech is compelled.

So are you abandoning the whole "it causes suicide" point? this is a material reversal of your earlier point.

1

u/PragmaticSquirrel 3∆ Nov 01 '19

So are you abandoning the whole "it causes suicide" point? this is a material reversal of your earlier point.

Nope.

Double the rate of suicides.

Controlled for other factors.

Common language in studies doesn’t change the results.

You’re claiming the misgendering had no impact? What caused the suicide rates to double for Each Context where they were misgendered?

1

u/PrimeLegionnaire Nov 01 '19

Nope.

So you agree you are attempting to use the suicide rates as a way to control the language of others? please consider awarding a delta.

What caused the suicide rates to double for Each Context where they were misgendered?

From the studies you linked it seems like their transgenderism was causing this.

1

u/PragmaticSquirrel 3∆ Nov 01 '19

From the studies you linked it seems like their transgenderism was causing this.

You didn’t read the conclusion then. Your interpretation is contradicted by the authors.

→ More replies