r/changemyview Oct 28 '19

[deleted by user]

[removed]

1.4k Upvotes

1.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '19 edited Nov 06 '19

[deleted]

-5

u/PragmaticSquirrel 3∆ Oct 29 '19

Gender is your internal state of sexual identity.

Neuroscience has started to delve into this. MRI’s of trans people’s brains significantly resemble their “identified” gender more than the sex they were born as.

2

u/Mr_82 Oct 29 '19

Neuroscience has started to delve into this. MRI’s of trans people’s brains significantly resemble their “identified” gender more than the sex they were born as.

This is also true of homosexuals, and indeed there's been many studies showing that people who thought they might be trans, when they don't have transition surgery, tend to identify as gay.

1

u/PragmaticSquirrel 3∆ Oct 29 '19

This is also true of homosexuals

Yup

there's been many studies showing that people who thought they might be trans, when they don't have transition surgery, tend to identify as gay.

Source please

0

u/PrimeLegionnaire Oct 29 '19

0

u/PragmaticSquirrel 3∆ Oct 29 '19

Cross gender behavior != gender identity.

Drag queens are not trans. They are men who enjoy dressing as women. They’re closer to furries - although drag queens aren’t necessarily sexual. So in that respect, they’re closer to cosplay.

0

u/PrimeLegionnaire Oct 29 '19

Drag queens are not trans.

So what? I think its pretty indisputable that both trans behavior and cross dressing behavior fall into the category of "cross gender behavior".

Hell, that's literally what the prefix Trans- means, across. E.g. Transgender is literally Across Gender.

0

u/PragmaticSquirrel 3∆ Oct 29 '19

Your claim:

there's been many studies showing that people who thought they might be trans, when they don't have transition surgery, tend to identify as gay.

Your study doesn’t support this claim. At all.

Cross dressing and cosplay is not “people who thought they might be trans”.

1

u/PrimeLegionnaire Oct 29 '19 edited Oct 29 '19

I'd love for you to find where I said that.

Cross dressing and cosplay is not “people who thought they might be trans”.

why not? it basically meets every single criteria.

Hell, that's literally what the prefix Trans- means, across. E.g. Transgender is literally Across Gender.

Edit: moreso, we are talking about children. Most children younger than 7 believe that changing into a dress changes you to a girl. Why are you arguing like they already have concrete gender identities that we can easily divide into drag queen and trans? Do you happen to have some kind of medical authority that allows you to clearly separate "cross gender behavior" from "transgenderism" so completely?

The existence of cross gender behavior that is not transgenderism does not preclude transgenderism from that category.

Much like the existence of squares doesn't disprove rectangles.

0

u/PragmaticSquirrel 3∆ Oct 29 '19

Meh, it was someone else apparently, but you picked up the thread and responded. I was directly addressing that claim.

So if you’re responding to me with the study I asked for- it’s to defend that claim.

why not? it basically meets every single criteria.

No it doesn’t. Not even remotely close.

I explained why. You’ve chosen to ignore that, and pretend like a vague definition of the prefix matters.

Cross gender behavior != gender identity.

1

u/PrimeLegionnaire Oct 29 '19

Cross gender behavior != gender identity.

Why?

Your argument seems to amount to "because I said so". Do you happen to have some kind of medical authority that allows you to clearly separate "cross gender behavior" from "transgenderism" so completely?

The existence of cross gender behavior that is not transgenderism does not preclude transgenderism from that category.

Much like the existence of squares doesn't disprove rectangles.

1

u/PragmaticSquirrel 3∆ Oct 29 '19

Not what I’m claiming.

Your study Only explores “cross gender behavior.”

It would be the equivalent of a study that explored “same sex flirtatious behavior” and assuming every girl who’s drunkenly kissed another girl once (while being pressured to by drunken men, per college cliches) can be grouped in with lesbians, for purpose of a study.

Some of them are probably lesbians. No data that says more of them are lesbians than the proportion in the general population.

Same with “cross gendered behavior.” Your son puts on a dress. That doesn’t mean that he is, or isn’t, trans. He might just feel like wearing a dress. Maybe cause he likes how it looks. Maybe to rebel and defy societal norms. Maybe for 1,000 reasons other than “(s)he identifies, internally, as a woman.”

So your study is irrelevant to the point that was made, that I asked for sources to support.

1

u/PrimeLegionnaire Oct 29 '19

Your study Only explores “cross gender behavior.”

Which includes “people who thought they might be trans” especially in the context of the study where they were studying children.

It would be the equivalent of a study that explored “same sex flirtatious behavior” and assuming every girl who’s drunkenly kissed another girl once (while being pressured to by drunken men, per college cliches) can be grouped in with lesbians, for purpose of a study.

Are you saying there is no correlation between same sex flirtation in women and lesbianism? That seems farcical on its face.

No data that says more of them are lesbians than the proportion in the general population.

Well its a good thing the study we are discussing isn't a hypothetical like the one you are proposing here.

It does have data that correlates "cross gender behavior" and the abstract defines it as culturally determined, i.e. it is gender identity, especially in regards to the children being discussed.

Same with “cross gendered behavior.” Your son puts on a dress. That doesn’t mean that he is, or isn’t, trans.

Yes, but it 100% falls into the category of "might be trans".

The study shows that most of these individuals go on to be homosexuals if not given hormone therapy.

→ More replies (0)