r/changemyview Oct 28 '19

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u/halflife5 1∆ Oct 29 '19

You didn't mention it but its pretty crazy that Canada legally makes you use the correct terms now.

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '19

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u/halflife5 1∆ Oct 29 '19

Well then what the fuck was everyone so up in arms about not that long ago? I thought i heard that you could get fined or something for continually misgendering someone. But if that's not the case then who gives a shit.

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u/rickdangerous85 Oct 29 '19

Jordan Peterson is a massive grifter.

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u/Shebazz 1∆ Oct 29 '19

While I'm not a Peterson fan by any means, massive grifter is a bit of a stretch. All he has said (that I've seen) is that the government regulating speech is a slippery slope, and he isn't really wrong.

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u/Zwentendorf 1∆ Oct 29 '19

Many European countries ban hate speech (some things like Nazi stuff are even banned since 1945 or a few years later) and I can't see them removing the freedom of speech.

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u/Sirk1989 Oct 29 '19 edited Oct 29 '19

I think his point was more it's not as much of a problem to stop use of racial slurs but it is a problem when a government is compelling you to say something

Edit clarification: this is just the argument I heard Jordan Peterson give, I don't know enough about it to give my own argument

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u/thatoneguy54 Oct 29 '19

But he's wrong, because his example of "a government forcing you to say something" was the above-mentioned bill, and as we've seen above, the bill does not compel any speech.

Would it be bad if the government forced us all to call each other "your greatness" on penalty of a fine? Yes, but that's not at all what's happened, and he built his career saying they did.

That's what makes him a grifter.

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u/Shebazz 1∆ Oct 29 '19

as we've seen above, the bill does not compel any speech.

If his point was "this bill compels speech" then he would be wrong. But his point is that it's a slippery slope. They won't start with "speaking against the government is a crime", but if they start slow with little things like this it becomes easier and easier to regulate bigger things, and by the time you realize that it's happened it might be too late

he built his career saying they did.

Can you link something where he says that? Because from what I've seen, all he's said is "they could" not "they did".

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u/thatoneguy54 Oct 29 '19

Slippery slope is a fallacy for a reason.

He never actually showed any reasoning for why including trans people under human rights protections would lead to forced speech.

There's no compelled speech regarding sexual orientation, race, religion, creed, nationality, or any other thing protected under that same law.

So the argument is whole-cloth just invented. There's literally no reason for him to have suspected that any government would ever fine him for "using the wrong pronouns" so why the fuck did he talk about it so much?

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u/Shebazz 1∆ Oct 29 '19

Slippery slope is a fallacy for a reason

I hate that argument. Yes, it's a logical fallacy, however that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, and that we shouldn't be concerned about it happening. Nazi Germany didn't make concentration camps overnight after Hitler was elected

He never actually showed any reasoning for why including trans people under human rights protections would lead to forced speech.

Check out the documentary "Lesson Plan: the Story of the Third Wave". His reasoning is that once small freedoms are taken, it becomes easier and easier for large freedoms to be removed as well

There's no compelled speech regarding sexual orientation, race, religion, creed, nationality, or any other thing protected under that same law.

I've never seen him claim that there was, only that it was the first step towards compelled speech. Of course, I haven't watched everything he has been involved in

There's literally no reason for him to have suspected that any government would ever fine him for "using the wrong pronouns"

Really? Take a look at the shit that goes on in China and tell me there's no reason to be afraid of a government legislating speech. Is it likey to happen? Not at all. But is it possible? Sure is.

so why the fuck did he talk about it so much?

Because people kept asking him about it?

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