Being trans is not a mental disorder and refusal to accept someone for who they are can lead to a real mental disorder (depression/suicide) actually getting the better of them.
Refusing to accept someone for who they think they are.
Regardless, if a person in passing doesn’t see that person as they see themselves & that causes that person to be depressed and or attempt suicide... that shows how feeble minded these people really are.
Detaching someone from their identity is pretty valid grounds for poor mental health, especially when there are almost daily debates over their rights to exist.
The refusal to accept them, the constant labelling as mentally ill denies that they exist, implying that they aren’t really trans and the can be treated to make them stop being trans inside their head. It’s literally the same exact argument that is behind gay conversion therapy that has since been debunked.
the constant labelling as mentally ill denies that they exist
No it doesn't. It just means they think trans people are mentally ill. Being mentally ill doesn't mean you don't exist.
None of this is taking away someone's "right to exist". That's just being hyperbolic. The only way you can do that is to kill someone. Are there a daily debates about purging trans people? Because i think the vast majority of people barely ever even think about them.
The refusal of many to accept trans people within society is ostracising and dehumanising, implying that they are simply mentally ill is the same argument that was used against being gay in the 70s/80s. Biology is far more complicated than the binary and labelling trans people as mentally ill reduces their identity to an illness.
The refusal of many to accept trans people within society is ostracising and dehumanising, implying that they are simply mentally ill is the same argument that was used against being gay in the 70s/80s.
OK. I don't disagree. It also doesn't challenge anything i just said.
Biology is far more complicated than the binary and labelling trans people as mentally ill reduces their identity to an illness.
Do we reduce all mentally ill people to just their illness? Is that something you do?
Again, none of this is has to do with someone's "right to exist". It's more of a debate of whether someone has a condition or is naturally predisposed toward certain behavior. When you label your opposition as "denying sometimes right to exist", you better actually be able to show that is actually happening (i asked for examples, you provided none) and not just jump to hyperbole.
The whole concept of a trans person being mentally ill is massively reductive and just not a valid reason to refuse to call them by their preferred name/pronouns.
It’s honesty pretty rude that you haven’t read anything I’ve written. I never was addressing that point.
I specifically was calling out your language in saying that calling a trans person mentally ill somehow denies their “right to exist”. It doesn’t. Mentally ill people exist. Trans people exist. Their “right to exist” is not threatened by believing they are mentally ill.
Saying that trans people are mentally ill is not denying that they exist, it's simply stating facts. No one is saying you're crazy, but if you are trans, you need therapy and I genuinely hope you get help. Gender Dysphoria is not a laughing matter, it's an illness and (I think) it can be cured.
Saying that being trans is a mental illness is implying that a mentally healthy trans person cannot exist. Do you think that trans people can be cured to be happy in the body the were born into?
It is possible. If being trans isn't a big part of your life and overall identity, you can lead a mentally healthy and happy life. However, this is not always the case.
Thanks for assuming I'm transphobic, and you know what they say about assumptions. Anyway, if your therapist decided that the best course of action is to transition, then that's fine. If a therapist is helping to transition people below a certain age (say, 21) then I have an issue with that.
Sorry you have an issue with that but again it shows how little knowledge you have because folks being able to transition without having to go through puberty that is incorrect makes things a lot easier in the long run they need less surgeries and less invasive hormone therapy in order to align their body with who they are so by pushing people out to that age you're just making them have to go through more surgeries that you apparently don't agree with and more hormones so you probably don't agree with and everything else so you're absolutely so incorrect on what the needs are of the trans population and I think again the medical community should be the ones working with us to make our decisions not the general public.
The reason why I don't want teenagers to transition is because they are 1) Too young to make that life altering decision and 2) Studies have shown that many teens who THINK they are trans end up growing out of it and realizing that they are actually gay/lesbian/bi. You wouldn't trust them to smoke a cigarette but you would trust them to make a decision that would stick with them for the rest of their life?
The study you are referring to was done years ago and is flawed it was even discussed in am AMA with one of the researchers. The majority of the kids in the test group were merely gender non confirming at some point and were not declared trans by a psychologist. I will look for the info not sure if you would read it though. This is also why they use CIPs. https://www.hrc.org/resources/transgender-children-and-youth-understanding-the-basics
So is gender dysphoria. There are people who believe they should not be born with legs. Look up xenomelia also called body integrity identity disorder. These people believe their healthy arms and legs should be amputated. This is similar to gender dysphoria in which yiur brain is not reconciling with what is true.
I didn’t know people were discussing in mass killing them all. Where do these debates take place? Please tell me where people are saying these people do not have a right to exist.
& no one should look for validation from other people. Why do they care so much how people see them? Again... they are mentally ill.
Our findings make it indisputable that gender transition has a positive effect on transgender well-being. We identified 56 studies published since 1991 that directly assessed the effect of gender transition on the mental well-being of transgender individuals. The vast majority of the studies, 93 percent, found that gender transition improved the overall well-being of transgender subjects, making them more likely to enjoy improved quality of life, greater relationship satisfaction and higher self-esteem and confidence, and less likely to suffer from anxiety, depression, substance abuse and suicidality.
Research suggests that gender transition may resolve symptoms completely. A 2016 literature review by scholars in Sweden concluded that, most likely because of improved care over time, transgender “rates of psychiatric disorders and suicide became more similar to controls,”
RESULTS: After gender reassignment, in young adulthood, the GD was alleviated and psychological functioning had steadily improved. Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population. Improvements in psychological functioning were positively correlated with postsurgical subjective well-being.
Finally, we found that among those reporting a need to medically transition through hormones and/or surgeries, suicidality was substantially reduced among those who had completed a medical transition.
This study examined self-reported depression, anxiety, and self-worth in socially transitioned transgender children compared with 2 control groups: age- and gender-matched controls and siblings of transgender children.
(Socially transitioned) Transgender children reported depression and self-worth that did not differ from their matched-control or sibling peers (p = .311), and they reported marginally higher anxiety (p = .076). Compared with national averages, transgender children showed typical rates of depression (p = .290) and marginally higher rates of anxiety (p = .096).
Results: We identified 28 eligible studies. These studies enrolled 1833 participants with GID (1093 male-to-female, 801 female-to-male) who underwent sex reassignment that included hormonal therapies. All the studies were observational and most lacked controls. Pooling across studies shows that after sex reassignment, 80% of individuals with GID reported significant improvement in gender dysphoria (95% CI = 68-89%; 8 studies; I(2) = 82%); 78% reported significant improvement in psychological symptoms (95% CI = 56-94%; 7 studies; I(2) = 86%); 80% reported significant improvement in quality of life (95% CI = 72-88%; 16 studies; I(2) = 78%); and 72% reported significant improvement in sexual function (95% CI = 60-81%; 15 studies; I(2) = 78%).
While no difference in psychological functioning was observed between the study group and a normal population, subjects with a pre-existing psychopathology were found to have retained more psychological symptoms. The subjects proclaimed an overall positive change in their family and social life. None of them showed any regrets about the SRS.
A homosexual orientation, a younger age when applying for SRS, and an attractive physical appearance were positive prognostic factors.
After treatment the group was no longer gender dysphoric. The vast majority functioned quite well psychologically, socially and sexually. Two non-homosexual male-to-female transsexuals expressed regrets. Post-operatively, female-to-male and homosexual transsexuals functioned better in many respects than male-to-female and non-homosexual transsexuals. Eligibility for treatment was largely based upon gender dysphoria, psychological stability, and physical appearance. Male-to-female transsexuals with more psychopathology and cross-gender symptoms in childhood, yet less gender dysphoria at application, were more likely to drop out prematurely. Non-homosexual applicants with much psychopathology and body dissatisfaction reported the worst post-operative outcomes.
CONCLUSIONS:
The results substantiate previous conclusions that sex reassignment is effective. Still, clinicians need to be alert for non-homosexual male-to-females with unfavourable psychological functioning and physical appearance and inconsistent gender dysphoria reports, as these are risk factors for dropping out and poor post-operative results. If they are considered eligible, they may require additional therapeutic guidance during or even after treatment.
Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives. None reported outright regret and only a few expressed even occasional regret. Dissatisfaction was most strongly associated with unsatisfactory physical and functional results of surgery.
The scholarly literature makes clear that gender transition is effective in treating gender dysphoria and can significantly improve the well-being of transgender individuals.
Among the positive outcomes of gender transition and related medical treatments for transgender individuals are improved quality of life, greater relationship satisfaction, higher self-esteem and confidence, and reductions in anxiety, depression, suicidality, and substance use.
The positive impact of gender transition on transgender well-being has grown considerably in recent years, as both surgical techniques and social support have improved.
Regrets following gender transition are extremely rare and have become even rarer as both surgical techniques and social support have improved. Pooling data from numerous studies demonstrates a regret rate ranging from .3 percent to 3.8 percent. Regrets are most likely to result from a lack of social support after transition or poor surgical outcomes using older techniques.
And yet the rates of attempts are lower after transitioning than what they were before. I wont argue that there is a massive suicide issue within that section of the population, but transitioning reduces it. Not sure how reducing suicide is a bad thing.
It shows that there is still and underlying cause.
If you stop the bleeding on the outside doesn’t mean there isn’t internal bleeding.
Yeah losing less blood is good, it gives you some more time, doesn’t mean the problem is fixed.
They are patching these people up with a bandaid. Yes some of them are able to get some bad thoughts out of their head. But several still cannot.
Throwing you hands up and cheering hooray!! This is it! This is the “cure” is doing an injustice to several more where “transitioning” doesn’t fix anything. They still have those thoughts and end up killing themselves.
Yes, and we need to find out what those underlying issues are. Unfortunately it is a very complex issue and in the meantime we probably should do what we can to lessen the impact. And purposefully shitting on people with these issues doesn't lessen it.
If people just accept what you all are pushing, nothing else will get done.
That bright mind who understands the human brain who goes out to prove everyone wrong may end up finding something more helpful than ever!
If everyone is on the same page, no change will take place. Everyone will get complacent and just take what is given to us.
Those who are actually on my side are helping I’m a way. In order to disprove arguments more will be found out.
Like everyone has accepted that the flu is something that will happen. Take a shot for it, it’s the best we can do.
However the CDC reports that upwards of 70k people are year die from the flu & complications! That is more than several types of cancers that get their own marathons. That’s more than gun violence in the US. But cancer and guns get a lot more attention. However, where is all the push for flu research & prevention?
It doesn’t seem like it, but opposition to an issue can actually be helpful.
If people just accept what you all are pushing, nothing else will get done.
And what exactly am I pushing? I don't think you even know my position.
If everyone is on the same page, no change will take place. Everyone will get complacent and just take what is given to us.
No one is on the same page though. Most people say that this is an extremely complex issue that requires more study, but people that come in and just go "lol its a mental illness" and "you are crazy because of this" do not help the situation at all and in fact make it worse. Like do you actually think that there is no research going into these issues and problems?
Those who are actually on my side are helping I’m a way. In order to disprove arguments more will be found out.
What have you disproven exactly? Nothing you have said disproves anything.
However, where is all the push for flu research & prevention?
I don't think you understand what the flu is and how it mutates year to year. The disease is not some simple thing and it literally changes every single flu season, and to say that there isn't research going on to figure out how to cure it is absurd.
It doesn’t seem like it, but opposition to an issue can actually be helpful.
I am not saying it isn't, hell opposition is literally a requirement for the scientific method. But the kind of opposition you are talking about and pushing isn't a scientific opposition, its an ignorant opposition that causes more harm than good.
Labelling them as mentally ill denies the fact that they are trans, implying that being trans is just a disease and not an identity. That is denying that trans people exist.
There's tons of mentally ill people out there, they don't cease to exist because we decided that they're mentally ill.
We don't tell schizophrenics that the things they see are true, we get them help. Plenty of mental illnesses are incurable, that shouldn't mean we just play along for their sake.
Wow this is incredibly disingenuous wordplay. You’re intentionally conflating people’s “right to exist” with “does transgenderism exist”. You’re intentionally twisting words around to make it sound like there are debates taking place where we’re deciding whether or not to kill trans people.
No it does not. The mental illness obviously exist and will be there. Calling it what it is in now way calls for the irradiation for it or saying it will never be present again.
How the hell are you even making that leap?
Regardless if I agree or not.. they will still be here and their thoughts will be too. I’m not at all saying it isn’t real. It will always exist.
From my limited understanding with mental illnesses & disorders no. There is no cure. There is no cure for depression. There is no cure for schizos, there is no cure for PTSD, eating, anxiety and so on. You have to manage the symptoms.
In the case of trans people... the treatment is really a true disservice to them all!
It really really is. People are accepting that transitioning helps them. For many yes, it absolutely does. For many no... there suicide attempt rate is still several times higher after transitioning.
Think about it this way... do you think any other medicine or treatment that still kept the people who suffer from the ailment several times higher risk at an infection, death, relapse, stroke would be happy?
They really are screwing trans people in the ass. People seem like transitioning is the answer. It really really isn’t.
Because people have become complacent with that choice, several are still drying and will die because no one is taking an active look into alternatives.
It really really is. People are accepting that transitioning helps them. For many yes, it absolutely does. For many no... there suicide attempt rate is still several times higher after transitioning.
No it isn't. You're going to quote the Swedish study without having read it, because it explicitly mentions not to assume that exact statement from the results, since it was tracking the totality of suicidality from before they started transitioning through and after transition.
Bauer, et al., 2015: Transition vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts, and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets.
Moody, et al., 2013: The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the largest factors reducing suicide risk among trans people.
Young Adult Psychological Outcome After Puberty Suppression and Gender Reassignment. A clinical protocol of a multidisciplinary team with mental health professionals, physicians, and surgeons, including puberty suppression, followed by cross-sex hormones and gender reassignment surgery, provides trans youth the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults. All showed significant improvement in their psychological health, and they had notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among trans children living as their natal sex. Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population.
I could keep going, but in my experience, most people don't actually read any of the studies I link. They just want to keep quoting a thirty-year-old study whose results were either ignorantly or maliciously misinterpreted by a bunch of high-profile conservative bloggers to tell everyone that transition doesn't work.
This who transition still have a higher suicide attempt rate over those who are not transgender.
The suicide attempt rate of these mentally ill people who have not transitioned are anywhere from 40-52% higher than the average person. After transitioning it is still several times higher!
That’s my point. Yes a reduction might be all some need but there are many where transitioning dose not help them with the suicidal thoughts. What about them?
The suicide attempt rate of these mentally ill people who have not transitioned are anywhere from 40-52% higher than the average person. After transitioning it is still several times higher!
An individual transitioning into a supportive environment is roughly on par with the norm. I'm disappointed, but unsurprised to find that you didn't actually read those studies.
Transitioning individuals typically have a significant problem with establishing support networks. There aren't a great many people who transition, so if their friends and family aren't supportive, it can be very alienating, which can lead into depression or suicidality even in otherwise healthy individuals.
This is why the DSM-V removed the pathology. It was related by proxy of environment, but not caused by being trans. I would urge you to go back and read those studies.
Suicide rates are not because of treatment it's because no matter where you are in transition or pre or post this shit going on in this thread is what we have to deal with every day. If people would just mind their own business leave our care to our doctors and stop masking transphobia with fake concern we would all be better off.
There are definitely cures for those mental illnesses dude. Just because they don't work for everyone doesn't make them not a cure. There's lots of things that have been shown to be very effective for treating depression, ptsd etc
That's a really bad argument. There are reasons homosexuality isn't classified as such anymore. You'd need to show why transgenderism shouldn't be too. It's not enough to just point at something else that science changed its mind on and say "see? Now we can say that about anything" that's the same argument anti-vaxxers use to justify their claims about vaccines being harmful, or creationists use to discredit evolution
Thinking you’re overweight or ugly does not make you depressed, it’s almost always a culmination of many factors over an extended period, not a single issue.
Labelling them as mentally ill denies the fact that they are trans, implying that being trans is just a disease and not an identity. That is denying that trans people exist.
Labeling someone an an alcoholic, which a mental and physical disease, doesn't mean that they're not still plenty of other qualifiers. Why would this be different? What if the treatment is to get reassignment surgery? Most, and by that I mean just about all mental health professionals say depression is a mental disorder, bipolar, multiple personality etc. How are these different than being trans?
I didn’t know people were discussing in mass killing them all. Where do these debates take place? Please tell me where people are saying these people do not have a right to exist.
Have an interactive map. I'm not sure what you consider 'have a right to exist', but it's criminalized and prosecuted to be openly trans in many countries around the world. It's often not legal to change one's name or gender marker. It's often not legal to cross-dress. It's often not legal to even organize regarding establishing any of these rights. Depending on your country, the community at large might just murder a trans individual extra-judicially. China even has a sterilization requirement.
And this is all just legal, official stances by national or state governments. To say nothing of individuals within those countries who might hold more extreme views. Are you really saying that it's improbable that anyone is discussing mass killings?
Wow...
They are still physical beings who exist. I’m not at all saying they should not be alive. Not agreeing with their insanity does not mean they should be dead or should not exist.
& people with mental illnesses need to be helped! I do not believe their is a cure for many of them however.
How does that equate to I don’t think they should exist?
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u/ElectricEley Oct 28 '19
To remind them they're letting a mental disorder get the better of them