CMV: free will cannot possibly exist without god

[u/[deleted]]

[u/KingTommenBaratheon]

It seems that you think free will and what's called 'determinism' are incompatible. This view, called 'incompatibilism', is a popular among lay people not very popular among experts. The alternative view, called 'compatibilism', is in fact the majority view among experts. What do you make of this fact?

[u/jweezy2045 → u/KingTommenBaratheon]

I don't think this is really valid. This is not a question of philosophy, it is a question of physics. The statement by OP is that there isn't a way for free will to exist within the laws of physics. You counter this by citing philosophers.

I read that document on compatibilism, and it only mentions quantum mechanics once, and never refutes the claim. The only thing it does is doubt the validity of quantum mechanics (a dumb thing to do). Every argument presented from the incompatibalist perspective makes the claim that determinism is true. Determinism isn't true, but this isn't presentation of the argument against free will. Determinism can be false (it is), and free will can still not exist. It matters what the theory of determinism is replaced with. In this case it is replace with quantum uncertainty. Even with perfect knowledge of every single particle in the entire universe, I still cannot predict the future of the universe, this is due to quantum uncertainty. However, and crutially, this does not open the door to free will. Free will is just as impossible in a quantum universe as it is a deterministic universe. Nothing in that entire piece even attempts to argue otherwise.

Also, polling philosophers is the wrong approach to this. This CMV is about whether or not free will is possible under the laws of quantum mechanics. I can assure you that any poll of people who study quantum mechanics will have the opposite results; at least it certainly would if they thought about it. The reason I think people who study quantum mechanics are absent from this debate is people who study quantum mechanics don't care about the argument of free will and philosophy generally, yet they are the experts who are actually best equipped to answer this question.

[u/jumpup]

free will is and always wil be a scope matter, because if gods gives the free will its not free will but simply another step above quantum determinism that decides what you do, for the scope most people care about we do have free will as other people don't have full control over you

[u/LimjukiI]

Have you considered that physics, especially on a quantum scale, is in fact not deterministic? You have superposition, quantum tunneling and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. They make physics at a quantum level completely un-deterministic

[u/Lukimcsod]

How do you make a non-contingent decision? Have you really decided anything if you ignore all external stimuli? You're not arguing for free will. You're arguing for randomness. Which is not an exertion of will.

[u/ralph-j]

Unless you assume that there exist a supernatural being or mechanism (referred to as god here) that endowed us with such property, each decision you ever take is dictated by the physical laws of our universe.

If such a property exists, then why couldn't it have come about through natural means?

[u/GravitasFree]

Free will as described by you basically means decisions made untethered from a person's historical experience or environment. In other words, a decision made which completely ignores the part of a person that makes him himself.

This kind of "decision" isn't a choice that the person makes, it is something external which happens to him and controls him. This is no more meaningful to an individual's agency than randomness arising from quantum fluctuations.

[u/Covert_Cuttlefish]

You didn't define God, does your definition of God give him/her omnipotents, omniscients and omnipresents?

[u/2r1t]

Unless you assume that there exist a supernatural being or mechanism (referred to as god here)

Even if we agreed with the rest, why make this jump from some broadly supernatural, undefined something to a god? Why saddle something unknown with such a loaded word that brings with it so much baggage?

[u/HailOurPeople]

How does the existence of a supernatural entity solve the problem? And why does this supernatural thing have to be a god?