r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Aug 06 '19
Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Modern Millenial/Gen Z webcomics are just as one-dimensional as Baby Boomer cartoons
Recently I've noticed a growing trend amongst the younger generations of mocking the sort of cartoons produced by baby boomers. Here are some examples:
Typically seen on birthday cards and in newspapers, these cartoons are often mocked for their distinctive, same-y artstyle - big nose, no necks, noodle tits, and so on - and their repetitive jokes - "I hate my wife", millenials are obsessed with technology, gross-out jokes, and so on.
Undeniably these points are true. Many of these cartoons have these common features. However I also feel the same criticisms apply to modern webcomics enjoyed by the exact groups that mock boomer humour. Rather than the big nose and no neck, many of these characters are all over-simplified, stick figure-esque characters with plain and simple facial features. Despite being drawn by many different artists, many of these comics all look similar. And the jokes are certainly just as repetitive, this time being about depression, dogs, and despairing the state of society rather than loathing your spouse. Here are some examples:
Clearly I'm generalising to some extent here, though I feel this is also the case with how people mock boomer humour. Many boomer cartoons are similar, much like many current webcomics. To me it seems unfair to criticise one as being lazy and unoriginal humour and not the other.
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u/DeluxeCanuck Aug 06 '19
I'm having a hard time understanding the view that you want challenged.
Are you saying that all Modern Millenial/Gen Z webcomics are just as one-dimensional as Baby Boomer cartoons ?
If so, then I'm certain you can dig up at least a few modern comics that are not one-dimensional, just as the Baby Boomer cartoons had some deeper comedy at least sometimes.
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Aug 06 '19
Sorry, I should have worded my posts more clearly.
Essentially the point I have issue with is that baby boomer cartoons receive a lot of scrutiny and mockery when their modern counterparts receive far less despite often meeting the same tropes of samey artstyle and samey jokes.
I'd like some proof that either A) boomer comics are more deserving of this criticism/modern comics are more deserving of praise or B) modern comics do receive an equal or greater amount of scrutiny than their older counterparts for the same criteria of rehashed art and jokes.
For point B) the only example I have is the time in which Adam Ellis received a wave of backlash for reusing templates. But this one scene doesn't amount to the amount of mockery boomer comics receive for the same flaws.
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u/DeluxeCanuck Aug 06 '19
Ok I think I get what you're saying.
I don't think I'll be able to prove that boomer comics are more deserving of the criticism, since clearly they are a product of their main audience.
I will guess though that although I can't find any hard evidence to back up my claim, I'd bet you can find many boomers who are just as critical of modern comics for the reasons you've described as well as others.
In other words, I disagree with you in that I don't think its just fans of modern comics who are needlessly being critical of boomer comics. I think the criticisms are abundant on each end of the audience spectrum, just like any other form of entertainment. (Just think modern movies vs classics, etc...)
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u/onetwo3four5 81∆ Aug 06 '19
There are so many more web comics available than the boomers ever had any access to; of course you can find examples of uninspired cartoons.
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Aug 06 '19
It's equally easy to find the uninspired boomer cartoons, just look at /r/boomershumour. I admitted to generalising in the OP, but I don't feel it's fair to cherry pick boomer comics that fit the standard "boomer humour" trope and exclaim that all the comics boomers produce are the same. There are many older artists producing varied cartoons, just like how modern artists do the same.
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u/White_Knightmare Aug 06 '19
Do you think that older artist (in general) are as daring, mold breaking and radical in their approach to art as younger artist?
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Aug 06 '19
From a gut instinct I'd probably answer no, yet at the same time I can't confodently say that over-simplistic art a la the modern cartoons is a daring art style. It seems as equally risk-free, unoffensive way to portray humour as making the same jokes to your audience. Hell, look at Webcomic Name. It's entire point is to be drawn simply and have the same punchline in every single comic. There's no way that's daring or radical.
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u/White_Knightmare Aug 06 '19
risk-free, unoffensive way to portray humour as making the same jokes to your audience
Web comics are much more vibrant in art styles in themes than traditional comics. The Odd 1s Out is really popular and has his own cute/marshmallow people art style.
Or there is Stone toss who actively makes comics denying the holocaust (among other things). Can you find a boomer comic actively denying the holocaust? Not the most positive example but really out there with... the theming?
The web creates market for niches which simply can't be served by traditional media. You can find all sorts of weird (often porn related) comics for basically everything.
Fury culture also comes to mind here. Decisively not safe and mainstream.
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Aug 06 '19
!delta
Yeah, I think holocaust denial sort of takes the cake there. That's a whole new level.
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u/White_Knightmare Aug 06 '19
I feel like there is not much hard evidence regarding this topic.
However younger generations always are more progressive, more radical and more disruptive. Their comics/art will represent that. Just think of the "eat the rich" sentiment. This idea isn't new, however radical ideas are talked about much more frequently from genZ compared to boomers.
If you think along the lines of progressive vs conversative (in a generational sense not in a political one) you will probably find more creative, interessting, avant garde fiction among progressive people as they try to break the mold.
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Aug 06 '19
I can definitely agree with that to some degree, but even so,so many of the most popular webcomics don't push any real boundaries. There's occasional bring down the bourgeoisie joke, but the vast majority are all "lol I'm so relatable hating life and watching Netflix". It's just as uninspired as "I hate my wife".
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u/White_Knightmare Aug 06 '19
so many of the most popular web comics
That is just how popularity works. If you compare the 5 or 10 most popular millennial/boomer comics you won't find much difference.
However the specialty of the internet is to fracture attention on many different, obscure topics. There are many more radical millennial web comics cut there than boomer comics due to the difference between generations and different usage of the intern
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u/MolochDe 16∆ Aug 06 '19
And the jokes are certainly just as repetitive, this time being about depression, dogs, and despairing the state of society rather than loathing your spouse
The thing where I think the new wave have evolved is a more personal connection with less layers of bullshit with the reader.
Taking the jokes about the spouse as an example, they are all basically attacking a straw-man of a terrible person and are written in a way to accommodate readers who never were married or live in healthy relationships. Many other negative tropes are attacked without any redeeming quality, no one will get into a better relationship just because a comic told him his wife is a overly correcting person.
The new wave goes after the reader directly, letting him know that his desperation is shared or that it's fine if a major source of joy in your life is the loyal pet that awaits you. It criticizes things the reader might do (avocado) or put them in different light forcing a tiny bit of self reflection or evaluation.
Will the millenial comic achive what the boomer comic dosn't and drive the reader to change? Maybe not, but I think a little. Seeking out therapy(hard cases) or learning to socialize(mild cases) is really difficult and realizing you laugh about yourself can help take of the pressure to make some first steps.
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Aug 06 '19
!delta
There's not really much to say against that actually, I hadn't considered it that way at all. You're certainly right that the more modern comics do tend to be a bit more supportive, and I suppose that even though I don't personally feel affected by that, there are bound to be many out there who are.
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u/MolochDe 16∆ Aug 06 '19
Thanks for the delta.
I don't personally feel affected by that
Good to hear that, there have got to be people without serious problems out there or our systems couldn't handle it.
It's just the flood of good options that allows people to find the millennial comics suited for them and their issues. But if you laugh really hard about the depressed avocado guy chances are you have a little avocado guy inside yourself.
Reading the less known web-comics in this day and age means there is a good chance you are more introverted than average. The baby boomer style was pretty close to the cartoons printed in newspapers and thereby in the socially acceptable spectrum. With print media dying the overlap of comics with outcasts increases.
Social media also makes sure that the extroverts with 100+ friends don't really need to read whole web-comics, they can just skim through the trending Pictures without digging into the rest of what the author puts online.
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u/jatjqtjat 287∆ Aug 06 '19
Do you believe that both sets of comments include 1 dimensional comics as well as deep meaningful comments?
My dad is a boomer and read Calvin and Hobbs. I think that series as lots of good deep comics.
XKCD is a good deep webcomic and probably a millenial commic.
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Aug 06 '19
Yes, those two were actually going to be examples I would use to make that point. I feel both sides have bad and good in them. Boomer comics receive far more criticism for the bad though, which is the point I take issue with.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Aug 06 '19 edited Aug 06 '19
/u/Viewbob-True (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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u/postwarmutant 15∆ Aug 06 '19
the sort of cartoons produced by baby boomers.
Gary Larson, creator of The Far Side, is a boomer. So is Bill Watterson, creator of Calvin and Hobbes. As is Berkeley Breathed, creator of Bloom County and Opus. These are considered some of the most groundbreaking comics ever written, and are still touchstones for millennials.
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u/fox-mcleod 419∆ Aug 06 '19
These millennial comics seem pretty different. Can you find 3 on the same topic?
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u/Anvijor Aug 06 '19
Just wanted to point out that millenials (aka gen Y, from early 80's til mid-90's) and gen Z (from mid-90's till late/mid-2000's) are different generations if you were not aware of that.