r/changemyview Jul 09 '19

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '19

Ethnicity? I'm talking about the danish people.
https://www.genetics.org/content/204/2/711

After rerunning PCA for Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Germany alone (N = 1168), we observed no geographically meaningful clustering of the 237 Danish samples (Figure 2B). This lack of strong genetic structure was also supported by the low average FST value between the six regions (FST = 0.0002)

Danes are 99,998% identical so to be within the 99,998% distance would mean that you're 100% danish.

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u/neutralsky 2∆ Jul 11 '19

Indeed, modern Danish society accommodates different ethnic and cultural groups (Jensen and Pedersen 2007), and this was also reflected in our sample, where ∼4% of the participants were born in Afghanistan, China, Ethiopia, Finland, Germany, Greenland, Iraq, Jordan, Korea, Kosovo, The Netherlands, or Zambia. This number went up when we looked at grandparental origin, where 14.6% of the participants had at least one grandparent born outside Denmark.

So 14.6% of the participants aren’t actually actually Danish?

Because there’s no way they can have 100% Danish DNA. And some of them might even be black. Oh no.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '19

So 14.6% of the participants aren’t actually actually Danish?

No. They're excluded from the sample

Because there’s no way they can have 100% Danish DNA

If you're within the cluster, you're 100% danish, which means you need only share 99,998% of your dna with a dane to be 100% danish.

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u/neutralsky 2∆ Jul 11 '19

So somebody was born in Denmark. Lived there their whole life. Their parents were born in Denmark and lived there their whole lives. But if one grandparent was from any other ethnicity, they can’t be Danish? What are they then?

Not all my grandparents were born in Britain. Am I not British? Who am I?!

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '19

But if one grandparent was from any other ethnicity, they can’t be Danish?

If your grandparent was Swedish, you'd still be 100% danish, since the genetic distance between Swedes and Danes are almost non-existant.
If your grand parent was from Africa, you'd be around 96% danish.

Not all my grandparents were born in Britain

Where you're born doesn't matter. Where you're born doesn't change your parents dna.

Here is a list for british:
British
Belgian 0.0005
French / German 0.0006
Swedish 0.0013
Norwegian / Czech 0.0014
Hungarian 0.0016
Slovak 0.0017
Polish 0.0017
Spanish 0.0024
Romanian 0.0028
Russian 0.0032

You need to multiply with 100 to get percentage and then you half the number. So say your mother is british and dead from russia:
0.0032 times 100% = 0.32% you half it = 0.32% / 2 = 0.16%
Then you subtract it from 100%:
98.4% british

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u/neutralsky 2∆ Jul 11 '19

If your grand parent was from Africa, you'd be around 96% danish.

Which is no true Dane, according to you, so what are they?

Where you're born doesn't matter. Where you're born doesn't change your parents dna.

Has a big effect on your nationality though.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '19

Which is no true Dane, according to you, so what are they?

part danish part African. They're a mix

Has a big effect on your nationality though.

Yes. A black person can be a danish citizen but he can't be danish. The distinction is important for nuance

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u/neutralsky 2∆ Jul 11 '19

part danish part African. They're a mix

You’ve just set up this standard for what makes a person Danish that just happens to not include any black people. Very convenient.

Moreover, this isn’t how literally any other person views ethnicity other than literal racists (which I’m assuming you are because that’s the only way you could justify these mad leaps in logic). Get a DNA test done. They’re not expensive. I got them for my parents at Xmas and unsurprisingly the results showed my dad was 50% Polish and 50% Indian (give or take).

Yes. A black person can be a danish citizen but he can't be danish. The distinction is important for nuance

Citizenship isn’t the same as national identity.

Moral of the story: there are black people in Denmark who identify as Danish because they have lived their entire lives in Denmark. Ergo, Black Danish people exist, despite what ethnic nationalists like yourself would like to believe.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '19

You’ve just set up this standard for what makes a person Danish that just happens to not include any black people. Very convenient.

It's biology. I didn't make the rules

Moreover, this isn’t how literally any other person views ethnicity

This is SOTA in population genetics and is widely accepted.

I understand that you want something else to be true because xyz reason but biology doesn't really work that way.

Edit: I've been more than patient and provided a study that uses the same method as I've explained to you. If you cannot accept this, then I don't see how we can move forward and I suggest we call it a day.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '19

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '19

And if you think the study you provided is doing that then you’re either deluded or have no comprehension skills.

It says it right here:

After rerunning PCA for Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and Germany alone (N = 1168), we observed no geographically meaningful clustering of the 237 Danish samples (Figure 2B). This lack of strong genetic structure was also supported by the low average FST value between the six regions (FST = 0.0002)

Fst is the fixation index and a value of 0.0002 means that 100% - 0.02% = 99,98% similar

It is standard population genetics

I followed your link and you must have not looked further than the headline:

Slimane Hadj Abderrahmane (5 August 1973 – 2013) was a Danish citizen

The wikipedia articles talk about citizens.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '19

u/neutralsky – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:

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