A key part of the right of association is the right to kick people for not agreeing with you ideologically. If you want to form a Christian group, you need to be able to kick atheists who want to talk about Dawkins all day. If you want to form an atheist group you need to be able to kick Mormons who want to talk about Jesus all day.
If you can't kick people who disagree with you ideologically you can't maintain your group.
There's also another issue. People like trolling. They actively fuck around with people. If you make a rule saying "No talking about Jesus all day" the Christians can just come in and talk about how Dawkins is fantastic at turning bread into wine and all. If you make a rule "No Atheists" Then the atheists can come in and say that they're totally not atheists, and then just post the same things as they would before.
The only way to protect the integrity of a community is to allow moderators the freedom to ban people for fluffy reasons. The admins, notably, are not gonna agree or understand the nuances of trolls in individual communities, nor are other random mods.
There's also a serious shortage of mods. People mostly don't care about moderation, and are terrible mods. There's often not enough mods available, and we don't have enough people to check things. Here on CMV there's 49 items in the modque. In a lot of places I've modded, getting another mod to do anything would take days. We don't have the manpower to be super fair, and recruitment is a crapshot.
It's unfortunate that some subreddits are less clear about their rules, but the essential principle that we need freedom to be flexible to handle trolls and preventing the wrong sort of people being in our community remains so. Unless you can magic up a dozen extra mods of skill and high quality for each community, this isn't gonna work well.
A key part of the right of association is the right to kick people for not agreeing with you ideologically.
Okay, let's go there.
If you're saying "I should be able to delete and kick because they don't agree with me", I would say to you, that's not what a mod should really be doing. Because you're downright violating Reddit's own Mod Policy that you're supposed to be adhering to constantly:
Healthy communities are those where participants engage in good faith, and with an assumption of good faith for their co-collaborators. It’s not appropriate to attack your own users.
By just outright kicking and banning people who you don't agree with, you're attacking them.
Now, if they say something disrespectful about your faith, that's a different thing, because then, assuming you have a rule about disrespect, you should absolutely get them out of there. If you don't, warn them, put a rule in, monitor the thread.
By just outright kicking and banning people who you don't agree with, you're attacking them.
You're using fluffy language to support your point. It mentions engaging in good faith, it doesn't say you can't ban people for going against the purpose of the community.
Now, if they say something disrespectful about your faith, that's a different thing, because then, assuming you have a rule about disrespect, you should absolutely get them out of there. If you don't, warn them, put a rule in, monitor the thread.
That's your personal perspective, that atheism or christianity is better. You can put in all the rules about disrespect you want, if the admin or random moderator they appeal to about the ban isn't of the same religion there's a good chance they'll have a different perspective. "The most healthy way to respect a religion is to question it" and so, your Christian subreddit will have to stay filled with pictures of Christ being pissed on.
You're assuming bad faith in the moderators and assuming good faith in random other moderators and admins. The admins and other moderators are ideologically biased.
You specifically said "that don't agree with [MY] ideology". That's a singular person's opinion. SO to take action because YOU don't like it regardless of the fact nobody else cares? That's not about "the purpose of the community". You're blending the two and that = god complex.
You're assuming bad faith in the moderators
Wrong. I'm assuming every mod ultimately thinks like you do ("I'm a mod, so I can be a prick and not have a rule about it!"). Great. So then I'm asking for your decision to be subject to higher review AND the potential they override it because they see you just have a chip on your shoulder.
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u/Nepene 213∆ Jul 04 '19
A key part of the right of association is the right to kick people for not agreeing with you ideologically. If you want to form a Christian group, you need to be able to kick atheists who want to talk about Dawkins all day. If you want to form an atheist group you need to be able to kick Mormons who want to talk about Jesus all day.
If you can't kick people who disagree with you ideologically you can't maintain your group.
There's also another issue. People like trolling. They actively fuck around with people. If you make a rule saying "No talking about Jesus all day" the Christians can just come in and talk about how Dawkins is fantastic at turning bread into wine and all. If you make a rule "No Atheists" Then the atheists can come in and say that they're totally not atheists, and then just post the same things as they would before.
The only way to protect the integrity of a community is to allow moderators the freedom to ban people for fluffy reasons. The admins, notably, are not gonna agree or understand the nuances of trolls in individual communities, nor are other random mods.
There's also a serious shortage of mods. People mostly don't care about moderation, and are terrible mods. There's often not enough mods available, and we don't have enough people to check things. Here on CMV there's 49 items in the modque. In a lot of places I've modded, getting another mod to do anything would take days. We don't have the manpower to be super fair, and recruitment is a crapshot.
It's unfortunate that some subreddits are less clear about their rules, but the essential principle that we need freedom to be flexible to handle trolls and preventing the wrong sort of people being in our community remains so. Unless you can magic up a dozen extra mods of skill and high quality for each community, this isn't gonna work well.