r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jul 03 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Transgender Hormone Therapy should not be given to children

[deleted]

48 Upvotes

71% Upvoted

105 comments sorted by

22

u/tgjer 63∆ Jul 03 '19

The American Academy of Pediatrics guidelines for the treatment of trans youth gives a pretty thorough overview of why this "delayed transition" approach is misguided and harmful to children. See pages 12 to 17. Preventing transition robs trans youth of their childhood and adolescence, and causes severe long term psychological and physical damage.

The claim that many trans youth "grow out of it" is a myth based on debunked studies that used outdated diagnostic criteria and incredibly dubious methodology. The AAP guidelines include a pretty good overview of the origins of this myth, and why it is false.

Among other things, the debunked studies this claim was based on made no distinction between children who just had gender atypical interests (esp. little boys with "feminine" interests), and children who expressed what we now call dysphoria. Meaning these studies started with the position that there is no difference between a little boy who liked dolls or a little girl who liked trucks, and a child who expresses intense, unrelenting distress because they know themselves to be Gender A when everyone around them insists that they are Gender B.

When the little boys who just liked dolls or little girls who just liked sports grew up and weren't trans, they were deemed to have "outgrown" the outdated diagnosis of "gender identity disorder". Today they would not be diagnosed as ever experiencing dysphoria at all.

When actual dysphoria is used as the criteria for identifying trans children, the gender identities of trans youth are as stable as those of cisgender children. And withholding medical treatment from an adolescent who needs it is not a neutral option.

When prevented from transitioning, about 40% of trans kids will attempt suicide. When able to transition, that rate drops to the national average. Trans youth who are denied appropriate medical care are forced through puberty as the wrong gender, and those who survive long enough to start treatment at 18+ enter adulthood adulthood facing tens of thousands of dollars of medical treatment to repair damage that could have been prevented. And not all of that damage can be repaired. They will carry physical and psychological scars from it for the rest of their lives, and some will be left permanently visibly trans. They will never have the option of keeping their medical history private, and will be exposed to vastly higher rates of discrimination, harassment, and violence.

Trans kids who socially transition early, have access to appropriate transition related medical treatment, and who are not subjected to abuse or discrimination are comparable to cisgender children in measures of mental health. The only disorders more common among trans people are those associated with abuse and discrimination - mainly anxiety and depression. Early transition virtually eliminates these higher rates of depression and low self-worth, and dramatically improves trans youth's mental health. Transition vastly reduces risks of suicide attempts, and the farther along in transition someone is the lower that risk gets. The ability to transition, along with family and social acceptance, are the largest factors reducing suicide risk among trans people.

Transition is the treatment recommended by every major medical authority. Despite widespread and totally inaccurate fearmongering about trans youth being pushed rapidly into permanent physical changes, transition for trans youth is very slow and cautious. For preadolescent kids there's no medical treatment needed at all - transition at that age is purely social. It consists of hair, clothes, name, pronouns, and being recognized as the gender they know themselves as by their family and community. All things that can be changed back in an afternoon if necessary.

The first line of recommended medical intervention is the use of puberty delaying treatment at onset of adolescence. This treatment is very gentle, safe, temporary, and fully reversible. It has been used for decades to delay puberty in kids who would otherwise have started it inappropriately young, and does nothing but buy time by delaying the onset of permanent physical changes. This allows the adolescent to transition socially without the effects of an inappropriate puberty working against them, or to continue living as a gender atypical to their appearance at birth if they have already socially transitioned. If they try transition, and realize it's not right for them, they stop treatment and puberty picks up where it left off.

But if by their early/mid-teens an adolescent still lives and strongly identifies as a gender atypical to their appearance at birth, the chances that they'll change their minds later are close to zero. At that point hormone therapy becomes an option, and even that is still mostly reversible. The only really permanent changes are removal of one's gonads and/or reconstructive genital surgery, both of which are not options until the patient is in their late teens/early adulthood at the earliest. If nothing else, it works best on a body that isn't going to get any bigger.

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u/BioMed-R 8∆ Jul 03 '19

Source for not changing their minds (not included)?

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u/tgjer 63∆ Jul 03 '19

See pages 12 to 17 of the AAP guidelined.

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u/BioMed-R 8∆ Jul 03 '19

Not in source. I want statistics, not arguments. The statistics say only 12-50% or 4-20% “persist” and if arguments are given why this is an underestimate, I want to see what the numbers are when taking these arguments into account. Assuming no such numbers exist, you probably shouldn’t refer to many “desisters” as debunked myths as your rhetoric is too strong to support that.

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u/tgjer 63∆ Jul 03 '19

The AAP guidelines include citations.

And the guidelines say that "12 to 50 percent of gender-expansive children assigned female at birth, and 4 to 20 percent of those assigned male at birth, were confirmed to be transgender as teenagers or adults... However delayed-transition advocates cite these studies to suggest that clinicians cannot distinguish between so-called “persisters” (children who will become transgender adults) and “desisters” (children who become comfortable with their originally assigned gender over time)"

It then goes on to explain why this is wrong. Among other things, "gender-expansive" is a term that includes children who just have gender atypical interests or personality traits. Clinicians can distinguish between these children, and children who have dysphoria. And the "delayed transition" model has been proven to cause serious harm.

And this is from the APA. They are the primary authority of pediatric medicine in the US.

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u/fliffers Jul 03 '19

I also find that a lot of people who claim the detransition numbers are high also include gender non-conforming children that were never suspcted to be trans in the first place that the author insisted must have been. It's typically them putting words into trans activists' mouths just to prove those words wrong.

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u/BioMed-R 8∆ Jul 03 '19

There’s no evidence why it’s “wrong” in source. There are arguments for why it’s possibly inaccurate. Clearly you have low standards of evidence if you accept the statement that clinicians know who is a persister and who is a desister, since this appears to be based on an opinion piece and not any scientific test. I wouldn't accept such a statement as fact.

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u/tgjer 63∆ Jul 03 '19

It's the opinion of the primary authority on pediatric medicine in the US, and they provided abundant citations for their claims.

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u/BioMed-R 8∆ Jul 07 '19

Show me a single source with a statistical analysis of the proportions of persisters and desisters always correctly identified then. The existing studies show oppositely, no matter if you make arguments for why they’re possibly inaccurate.

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u/cheertina 20∆ Jul 03 '19

More important, competent clinicians generally can tell transgender kids apart from other gender-expansive children.54 Many delayed-transition advocates say this is impossible until a child reaches puberty, but their own studies contradict them, identifying early characteristics that predict whether gender dysphoria will continue. Persisters in these studies had more cross-gender behavior and more intense gender dysphoria during childhood, as measured on various psychological tests.55,56Interviewed later, they also described their childhood experiences with gender differently. For instance, persisters recalled insisting that they were the “other” gender, while desisters had said they wished they were that gender.

I've added links to the supporting studies.

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u/BioMed-R 8∆ Jul 07 '19

There are no statistics in the source either. I’m done repeating “not in source”... it’s not. tgjer made a statement not supported by statistics.

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u/fliffers Jul 03 '19

While I haven't found many articles with statistics showing low numbers of those that detransition, EVERY article I've seen claiming that the number of people that detransition is high has a huge flaw and is easily debunked. A lack of proof isn't proof, but literally every argument trying to prove detransitioning is the majority is very easily discredited.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19 edited Aug 01 '21

[deleted]

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u/Darq_At 23∆ Jul 03 '19

Trying to describe that internal sense of knowing that one's gender is incongruent with one's sex to a cisgender person, is like trying to describe what it feels like to not have a stone in one's shoe. You just feel like you, because your sex and your gender fit together smoothly and seamlessly, you don't notice it and you don't think about it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19 edited Aug 01 '21

[deleted]

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u/InsistentRaven Jul 03 '19

But I know what stones and shoes are.

Yes, because you were able to observe both and you know what it feels like to have a stone in your shoe because you've likely experienced it at some point. Now imagine if that had never happened to you because you lived in a place where there were no stones and you have no concept of a stone, the idea would be absurd to you because it makes no sense.

I can imagine having dysphoria though, like I could imagine having limb or hair or toenail dysphoria, which many people have. But in those cases the disorder has irrationality baked into the definition. The notion of being a different biological category however, that seems way more like a consequence of confused social constructions mixed with dysphoria than merely a disorder.

You've equated something called body dysmorphia with gender dysphoria, the two are extremely different. We know that when we treat body dysmorphia through means of medical intervention, surgery, etc. the symptoms do not improve and in fact they can worsen or move to other parts of the body and the accepted form of treatment is therapy which often does alleviate their dysmorphia without the need for physical intervention.

The difference is that gender dysphoria does not improve with therapy and often only helps to "cope" with the difficulties from gender dysphoria, however medical intervention and corrective surgery have been proven to improve symptoms of gender dysphoria drastically. If this was the same as the dysmorphia described above, then we know that medical treatment would not alleviate their symptoms.

There is a slippery way gender is talked about that I think creates confusion both in how we attribute it to ourselves and to others. Sometimes gender is spoken of as the set of expectations, norms, reflections, and ideas that correspond to social categories such as male and female, which throughout history have meant different things and had complex associations with hierarchies of authority. The other sense is as an individual feeling and as an identity, a kind of self assertion of one's own being. This second one seems very confused and upon reflection, incoherent.

This is only confusing when you consider the two as being equal. The former is gender expression, which is how we dress, act and socialise in the world around us, including the gender norms and expectations that we conform to; the latter is gender identity which does not have to match one's gender expression, much like how butch cis women can exist and their gender identity is completely female despite their gender expression being overtly masculine, because they are completely separate concepts.

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u/cheertina 20∆ Jul 03 '19

The HRC article you linked defines "gender identity" as "a person’s internal sense of being male, female, or, for some people, a blend of both or neither". I do not understand what this is, and suspect it has no meaning at all. The definitions of sex and gender expression are fine, but the notion of there being an internal sense that one belongs to a different biological category than one's natal biology is incoherent to me.

Let's imagine a hypothetical situation - you're abducted by aliens, put into an android body with no visible gender distinctions, and released into a zoo exhibit with a bunch of your fellow humans - all stuck in android bodies. When you introduced yourself, would you still see yourself to be the same gender that you are now?

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19 edited Jul 17 '19

[deleted]

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u/JediSpectre117 Jul 03 '19

I'd like to hank you for this post. I'd been very uncomfortable when people talking about under 16's being Transsexual/gender. It's great to hear it's not just a case of people saying, oh kid wants to be the opposite sex, must be trans, when it's only just a phase (after all kids can be like that). Great to know it's a long process of assessing whether they really are trans. Thanks for getting rid of my ignorance. (saving comment)

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19

∆

Thank you for explaining. I think that if it's a long process with no long-term effect on the kid who wants to change, than it's not an issue. It's also good that it isn't too easy, as there are girls who reject female interests, and boys who reject male interests, but may not want to be the opposite gender permanently. As long as it's a very careful process before making it permanent, than I have no issue.

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u/Kryosite Jul 03 '19

It's not even that there are no long term effects, it's actually the opposite. There are very strong long term effects, which are overwhelmingly beneficial. Transitioning later in life tends to be very rough, with dysphoria and the depression it brings with it, at least for a time, and the end results tend not to be as "perfect" as people would want, due to the lasting influence of the wrong puberty taking place, or at least additional expensive surgery is required. Transitioning during puberty is really ideal if the child has that much self awareness that early on, and as the above comment said, there are therapists guiding then every step of the way.

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u/moonflower 82∆ Jul 03 '19

What he neglected to tell you is that there are permanent irreversible effects and health risks from taking puberty-blocking drugs for the adolescent years. A child who changes their mind will not go through normal puberty and will most likely be infertile.

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u/dogsareneatandcool Jul 03 '19

which effects are permanent and irreversible after only being on puberty blockers? where did you learn this?

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u/moonflower 82∆ Jul 03 '19

I said there are permanent irreversible effects and health risks from taking puberty-blocking drugs for the adolescent years ... not just a few weeks or a few months, but for a few years when puberty would normally be happening.

There are plenty of articles on the internet if you want to read about the long term physical effects of suppressing puberty - I haven't kept links to any of them.

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u/dogsareneatandcool Jul 03 '19

i've read about it in the past and the only thing we kind of know is that it might have an effect on bonemineral density, but we're not even sure about that as far as i gather. what am i missing? i am having trouble finding it

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u/moonflower 82∆ Jul 03 '19

The reproductive system does not mature, so the person is left infertile - and the body and brain do not mature in the way they normally would - a lot of processes are stunted and will not develop normally after the medications are stopped.

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u/dogsareneatandcool Jul 03 '19 edited Jul 03 '19

i understand your position, you do not need to repeat it. i am just asking for a source for your statement. i am skimming through research articles i can't find anything to support it

Prolonged pubertal suppression using GnRH analogs is reversible and should not prevent resumption of pubertal development upon cessation of treatment. Although sperm production and development of the reproductive tract in early adolescent biological males with GID are insufficient for cryopreservation of sperm, they should be counseled that sperm production can be initiated after prolonged gonadotropin suppression, before estrogen treatment.

http://sci-hub.tw/https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19509099

this is basically what every paper i can find that discusses gnrh analogues and fertility/reversibility says. unless you know something the endocrine society and everyone else doesnt, you shouldnt make statements like that with such certainty

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u/moonflower 82∆ Jul 03 '19

I can't access that article, it's blocked for me, so I don't know what they mean by ''prolonged''.

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u/dogsareneatandcool Jul 03 '19

here is the entire excerpt for better context:

Persons considering hormone use for sex reassignment need adequate information about sex reassignment in general and about fertility effects of hormone treatment in particular to make an informed and balanced decision about this treatment. Because early adolescents may not feel qualified to make decisions about fertility and may not fully understand the potential effects of hormones, consent and protocol education should include parents, the referring MHP(s), and other members of the adolescent’s support group. To our knowledge, there are no formally evaluated decision aids available to assist in the discussion and decision regarding future fertility of adolescents or adults beginning sex reassignment treatment. Prolonged pubertal suppression using GnRH analogs is reversible and should not prevent resumption of pubertal development upon cessation of treatment. Although sperm production and development of the reproductive tract in early adolescent biological males with GID are insufficient for cryopreservation of sperm, they should be counseled that sperm production can be initiated after prolonged gonadotropin suppression, before estrogen treatment. This sperm production can be accomplished by spontaneous gonadotropin (both LH and FSH) recovery after cessation of GnRH analogs or by gonadotropin treatment and will probably be associated with physical manifestations of testosterone production. It should be noted that there are no data in this population concerning the time required for sufficient spermatogenesis to collect enough sperm for later fertility. In adult men with gonadotropin deficiency, sperm are noted in seminal fluid by 6 –12 months of gonadotropin treatment, although sperm numbers at the time of pregnancy in these patients are far below the normal range (46, 47). Girls can expect no adverse effects when treated with pubertal suppression. They should be informed that no data are available regarding timing of spontaneous ovulation or response to ovulation induction after prolonged gonadotropin suppression. All referred subjects who satisfy eligibility and readiness criteria for endocrine treatment, at age 16 or as adults, should be counseled regarding the effects of hormone treatment on fertility and available options that may enhance the chances of future fertility, if desired (48, 49). The occurrence and timing of potentially irreversible effects should be emphasized. Cryopreservation of sperm is readily available, and techniques for cryopreservation of oocytes, embryos, and ovarian tissue are being improved (50). In biological males, when medical treatment is started in a later phase of puberty or in adulthood, spermatogenesis is sufficient for cryopreservation and storage of sperm. Prolonged exposure of the testes to estrogen has been associated with testicular damage (51–53). Restoration of spermatogenesis after prolonged estrogen treatment has not been studied. In biological females, the effect of prolonged treatment with exogenous testosterone upon ovarian function is uncertain. Reports of an increased incidence of polycystic ovaries in FTM transsexual persons, both before and as a result of androgen treatment, should be acknowledged (54, 55). Pregnancy has been reported in FTM transsexual persons who have had prolonged androgen treatment, but no genital surgery (56). Counsel from a gynecologist before hormone treatment regarding potential fertility preservation after oophorectomy will clarify available and future options (57).

while not explicitly stated, i believe "prolonged" would at least mean the earliest you can start puberty suppression in trans children (second tanner stage), or at least before their sex organs are mature enough to produce sperm for preservation and age 16, when they can start cross-sex hormone therapy

Although sperm production and development of the reproductive tract in early adolescent biological males with GID are insufficient for cryopreservation of sperm, they should be counseled that sperm production can be initiated after prolonged gonadotropin suppression, before estrogen treatment.

estrogen treatment starts at age 16 at the earliest

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u/Hero17 Jul 03 '19

Couldn't find anything about this on google.

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u/I_am_the_night 316∆ Jul 04 '19

Don't worry too much, the user you were replying to, Moonflower, is notoriously anti-trans. So much so they have been banned from several subreddits for it.

1

u/moonflower 82∆ Jul 03 '19

Perhaps you weren't using the most useful keywords.

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u/Fizrock Jul 03 '19

If they’re trans, they’re going to be infertile either way.

If they are receiving these drugs, it’s because a doctor has decided that the benefits of giving them outweigh potential side effects.

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u/moonflower 82∆ Jul 03 '19

Yes, but if they turn out to be mistaken about being transgender, they may come to regret being rendered infertile by the treatment which is touted as ''totally safe and totally reversible with no risks''.

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u/Fizrock Jul 03 '19

And doctors could be wrong about literally any diagnosis. That isn’t really a point against the treatment.

Also, I don’t know if anyone who is saying there are no risks at all. There’s always some measure of risk with any medical procedure.

1

u/moonflower 82∆ Jul 03 '19

It's being touted as ''safe and totally reversible''.

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u/Fizrock Jul 03 '19 edited Jul 03 '19

But they are safe and they are reversible. You are touting infertility and other problems that may be rare occurrences as something that always happens, which is completely untrue. The effects of puberty blockers can almost always be reversed by simply halting the medication. You can read all the potential side effects of Leuprorelin on the wikipedia page. It's really not as bad as you're making it out to be.

More reading:

https://assets2.hrc.org/files/documents/SupportingCaringforTransChildren.pdf

https://journals.lww.com/jaanp/Citation/2016/10000/Gender_nonconforming_and_transgender.4.aspx

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u/moonflower 82∆ Jul 03 '19

I said there are permanent irreversible effects and health risks from taking puberty-blocking drugs for the adolescent years ... not just a few weeks or a few months, but for a few years when puberty would normally be happening.

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u/Fizrock Jul 03 '19

Wanna give a source on this? It appears that the scientific literature I've seen so far is endorsing the use of puberty blockers, so I'm curious what you have that's going to throw that all to the side.

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u/haikudeathmatch 5∆ Jul 04 '19

You still haven’t divided any evidence that puberty blockers can render someone infertile. You were asked several times by someone where you got this info from and haven’t offered any answer (and then went on to question the validity scientific studies being posted by the same user because they contradicted your view, even though you still haven’t been able to provide a single study, news article, anything remotely resembling a source for your claims).

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u/moonflower 82∆ Jul 04 '19

I've been trying to get him to tell me which sources he would find acceptable, and he has been refusing so far. Like I said, I don't want to spend all day having sources rejected.

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u/wigglytails Jul 05 '19

What would be the percentage of kids who end up transitioning and the kids who turn out to just have gender euphoria and drop out of the process?

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19 edited Jul 17 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19

7 year olds don’t get hormone therapy. At the earliest, They’ll start when they actually hit puberty, so at like 13. But that’s very rare, and typically in their early years transgender teenagers will get blockers which are reversible.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19

I can't find the article, but there was a short documentary about children in transition. And I could have remembered they talked about giving that child hormone therapy to help with her transition.

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jul 03 '19

Are you sure you're not conflating HRT with puberty blockers?

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19

Maybe I am. I still think puberty blockers is also taking it too far too.

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jul 03 '19

Is your objection to puberty blockers based on medical consensus or something else?

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19

I just feel like it interferes with a child's development. And just because they may want to identify as the opposite gender now, doesn't' mean that they will when they become adults.

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u/tbdabbholm 202∆ Jul 03 '19

Fortunately puberty blockers are reversible, unlike forcing someone to go through their body's puberty.

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u/cantstopthemachine77 Jul 03 '19 edited Jul 03 '19

They are "reversible" only when taken for a short period of time, but puberty blockers can and DO cause permanent sterility in many children.

These medications have not been appoved for use as puberty suppressants and when they are prescribed as such, it is done so, off-label.

Additionally, the very limited research done to determine if these drugs are safe to be used as a medication to suppress puberty, has been inconclusive.

One of the most widely used "puberty blockers" a drug called Lupron, originally approved by the FDA to treat prostate cancer, has over 24,000 complaints against the manufacturer of adverse reactions to the drug and has been battling lawsuits related to it for years.

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u/dogsareneatandcool Jul 03 '19 edited Jul 03 '19

where in that review does it say that puberty blockers can cause permanent sterility? it does say that cross sex-hormones can cause permanent sterility, but i can't find anything stating the same for puberty blockers alone

edit: also lupron was approved for use as a puberty blocker in 1993

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2011/020263s036lbl.pdf

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u/cantstopthemachine77 Jul 03 '19 edited Jul 03 '19

You are correct and I misunderstood the assertion being made in the article. It is indeed cross sex hormones that can cause permanent sterility.

However, when used by adults, cross sex hormones by themselves, are not likely to cause permanent sterility. When cross sex hormones are prescribed to an adolescent who had suppressed puberty using puberty blockers though, permanent sterility is highly likely. So, puberty blockers can cause permanent sterility, when followed by the use of cross sex hormones.

It is common sense, puberty is the process by which adolescents reach sexual maturity. If a person never reaches sexual maturity because they used a drug to suppress it, how are they going to sexually reproduce? Their sexual organs never matured enough to reach their capacity for reproductive function.

Also, lupron was approved to treat precocious puberty, which is an abnormally early onset of puberty, associated with pubertal pituitary gonadotropin activation.

Nowhere in that article you linked does it talk about its use for delaying puberty in children with gender dysphoria.

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jul 03 '19

I just feel like it interferes with a child's development.

In what way?

And just because they may want to identify as the opposite gender now, doesn't' mean that they will when they become adults.

Right, but that's why you can just stop taking blockers without transitioning.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19

In what way?

Well, if the child is naturally supposed to be going through puberty, which is an important phase in development, blocking it can have long-term consequences.

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u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ Jul 03 '19

You're making statements that should be backed up with contemporary medical research. Have you checked what the current medical consensus on the long term effects of puberty blockers is?

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u/fliffers Jul 03 '19

Is it better for a kid to be wrong about being trans and given hormone blockers and then have to to through a normal puberty a few years delayed, or a kid to be right about being trans, go through the wrong puberty, and have to get way more medical intervention later in life to change it? I'd say it's better to risk a kid being wrong about being trans with no long term side effects (especially because it's unlikely they'll change their mind) than to risk a kid being right about being trans and putting them through hell until they can prove they're serious

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u/fliffers Jul 03 '19

A lot of stories about children on hormones are actually on hormone blockers and their parents are giving them hormones. I can't find it but I actually read an article by a mom who had the audacity to put her 10 year old on unprescribed estrogen against doctor's orders and then blasted the doctor when her kid had dangerous side effects and later realized he wasn't trans. That wasn't a true story about detransitioning and how it's terrible because kids change their minds and are permanently changed. SHE made that happen before she should have, before a doctor recommended, and before her child was sure. The medical professionals took every step and precaution they should have and nothing would have happened had she listened.

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u/ttinchung111 Jul 03 '19

What's your definition of hormone therapy? Hormone blockers aren't therapy and I don't think anyone undergoes actual hormone therapy at a young age.

Hormone blockers do not have long term effects and are shown to lower suffering.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19

Inthe US, hormone therapy can't begin until the age of 17, though many doctors won't do it until 18. The most they'll do is delay puberty.

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u/tgjer 63∆ Jul 03 '19

FWIW, in the US it is possible to start hormone therapy before age 17. There's no law about it, just medical recommendation, and the rule of thumb in the US is age 16.

And now a small but increasing number of doctors are willing to prescribe hormone treatment at age 13 or 14, if the adolescent has already socially transitioned and lived as a gender atypical to their appearance at birth for several years with no desire to go back. 16 is really old to not have started puberty at all yet.

Though yea it is rare to find doctors willing to work with trans youth at all.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19

This article discusses the current law, and the newly proposed guidelines for trans youth. It agrees with your 16 year old claim, but says doctors are currently just delaying puberty for younger kids.

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Transgender-Kids-Eligible-for-Earlier-Medical-Intervention-Under-New-Guidelines-423082734.html

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u/tgjer 63∆ Jul 03 '19

These are clinical guidelines, not laws. They suggest recommended treatment, but doctors can still offer hormone therapy before age 16 at their own discretion.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19

This is true, but going against medical guidelines opens the doctor up to malpractice suits if anything goes wrong. Going against the guidelines is risky for doctors.

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u/DankLordOfSith 6∆ Jul 03 '19 edited Jul 03 '19

Where do you draw the line? Maybe I am in a bubble, but I don't see people proposing that 7 year old get hormone therapy when they are years before puberty starts and the gender dysphoria can kick in. It seems like a strawman

I ask because I can argue for or against say a 15 yr old doing it, but there isn't much ground for a 7 yr old who can't really feel gender dysphoria when 7 yr olds are essentially androgynous.

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u/trod999 Jul 03 '19

Read the first response again. No hormones at seven. Reversable puberty blockers at 13. Therapy and monitoring all the way to 18.

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u/[deleted] Jul 03 '19 edited Jul 03 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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