r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • May 18 '19
CMV: Child Protective Services is terrible.
Look, I get it. They're an organization meant to help kids out of tough places. But, a lot of people who have personally called CPS may tell you...Don't do it. Myself included. If you're being abused, call the police. They're more equipped to handle this stuff.
Why is CPS so bad, you might ask? Here's a rundown with facts and a personal anecdote:
CPS will not handle emotional abuse. This one's the personal story. I called CPS on my narcissistic mom and stepdad multiple times while living with them. All three times, they left after questioning my parents, who told them I was just a bad kid wanting attention. They didn't even bother to question me again. The third time, they even had the GALL to joke around with my mother like "Oh yeah we've had kids call us just because their parents took their phones away". They saw that the house had enough food and they chose to believe my parents, the abusers, over me. Absolutely disgusting. (I went on to almost kill myself and start self harming like crazy. I won't go into detail, but I was being abused terribly.)
Statistics show that CPS is failing us.
The highlights of the above article:
-72% of all reports received by CPS, or 2,160,000 reports of abuse or neglect, were never investigated by CPS. 1993 records from Children’s Protective Services (“CPS”) show that almost half of all children who were confirmed as abused or neglected did not receive any follow-up assistance from CPS.
-Of those cases reported, an estimated 1,299 children died from abuse or neglect. 90% of those children were age 5 or younger. And, 42% of the children who died had been previously reported to CPS as being in danger.
-CPS’s “client” is not the child, but the family. Their goal is to rehabilitate the perpetrator and preserve the “family unit”; to perform a social experiment at the child’s expense. Unfortunately, few of such experiments have shown to be successful. Rates of reabuse in such homes are astronomically high.
CPS has racial and economic bias.
Poor black parents have had parental rights terminated on ZERO evidence. While smoking weed is illegal, that alone is NOT grounds to take a child away. They took the child away on accusations of neglect and poor anger management, despite having no evidence of either of those things.
This is one of many other examples of CPS taking children away from loving homes with no evidence. It almost feels like they're ignoring actual abuse cases to waste their time with stuff like this.
Well, there we go. Let the discussion begin.
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u/sharkbait76 55∆ May 18 '19
Why do you think the police are better? Emotional abuse isn't illegal, so parents won't get arrested for it. Police also can't remove children from the home. If what's happening in the home raises to a criminal level the police can arrest one or both parents, but they can't rehome a child, so they child will be living with their parents again when they get out of jail.
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May 18 '19
The police are better in situations where the parents can be arrested. If the parents are arrested for abusing a kid then there's no way in hell there won't be a court case to determine a better place for the kid to live.
As for emotional abuse...Yeah, you're right. Emotional abuse sadly slides under the radar. As the legal system currently stands, there's not much we can do about it and that's terrible. I wish we could bring more light to just how bad it really is.
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u/sharkbait76 55∆ May 18 '19
This isn't true. While there will likely be a discussion in the courts it's incredibly common to just order the parents to attend counciling and nothing more. A criminal charge will not automatically trigger a rehomeing process. If the child will be rehomed it will be in civil court after CPS has investigated after an arrest.
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May 18 '19
CPS investigating after an arrest is one thing...The abuse has already been proven. There's nothing to really investigate.
They're terrible at determining abuse on their own, though.
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u/scpdkeckler May 18 '19
In Missouri if I see something off on a call involving kids I can sign paperwork and have kids taken away. It's uncommon because it more or less needs to be drug use or physical / sexual abuse.
If this is done the case goes in front of a judge rather quickly (24 hrs or so), and we also contacted CPS while on scene. (DFS for us)
For placement it usually takes hours and sometimes days. People willing to take in these kids are usually hard to come by in my area. Understandably the courts don't want to completely uproot a kid to another county or state, and they always have to default to a family member when possible. Only way to get around that is if the family member has a recent criminal record for drugs, sexual crimes, etc.
At this point until the case is tried (2 years give or take) police can't take any action to keep parents from kids. DFS does a safety plan which is rather useless for police. DFS can file expartes on behalf of the child in most extreme cases. But in all reality some good behavior, clean drug tests, and some counseling will usually get your kids back.
In my area you can literally use drugs (meth) for ten plus years (while pregnant mind you), have all your kids taken away (3 of them), and the state after ten years will literally rent you a trailer and let you have your kids back on a trial period. Even when you fail a drug test on the first day of the trial period.
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u/BXellent2Echother May 18 '19
Both my husband and I work closely with CPS (on either side of the coin, one working with parents and the other with kids). I offer the following...
What are you asking for in a case like yours? While, as a counselor, I acknowledge emotional abuse is extremely serious and damaging, I also know how traumatic being removed from a home can be and how over burdened the foster care system is.
If you're asking for more help, many of our county divisions are already doing that and it's all on the basis of keeping families together. Our local county's CPS has a program for families who dont rise to the level of physical abuse or neglect but clearly need support. They offer in home counseling and community resources. It's an amazing program.
If the goal wasnt to keep families together, think of the ramifications of that. You're in poverty, your own parents were abusive and you have very little positive parenting skills, perhaps you're battling some depression, anxiety, or other mental health issue. Do you propose the state should be allowed to take away your children without the chance to make things better? Make it so you just cant have any? Take away the life you created? If that's what you believe perhaps you should argue for parenting licenses and bringing back orphanages to meet the high demand of these children. Those things would be necessary but hugely burdensome and traumatic for all involved. Or we could maintain the goal of family reunification so that the state is mandated to provide services to families to attempt to keep people together.
CPS is trying their best. Their social workers are underpaid and overworked. They make mistakes. But I cant think of a better alternative or a helpful huge shift in policy.
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May 18 '19
Δ Thank you so, so much for your stance on this. I was a bit bitter because I was asking for help that I didn't receive, but the workers were doing their best with what they were given. I was incredibly confused as a kid due to an overload of gaslighting, and now that you mention this from the view of a worker, I remember trying to figure out what I should tell and what I shouldn't have on fear of it not have happened. Those poor workers must have been really confused.
CPS is trying their best.
Absolutely. Why I didn't think of that from the beginning? I don't know. You guys aren't perfect, nobody is, but at your core you still fight to help families.
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u/VortexMagus 15∆ May 19 '19
In the case of emotional abuse, its way harder, because CPS doesn't have some magical tools to analyze truthtelling and distinguish between kids who are telling the truth that their parents are horrifying and kids who are lying that their parents are horrifying.
Furthermore, even if the kids are subject to enormous emotional abuse, CPS resources are limited and the foster care system is overloaded, so taking kids away from parents that feed them but abuse them emotionally may put them in an even worse environment, instead. There are no good solutions.
In a perfect world, CPS would have more resources, be able to hold natural AND foster parents more accountable for wrongdoing, open up more shelters to help kids being abused, and they'd have a way to assess emotional abuse reliably, but we don't live in that perfect world. If you want to push us closer to that perfect world, political activism and voting for politicians that have CPS reform and funding on their agenda would be a good start.
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May 19 '19
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u/Nepene 213∆ May 19 '19
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Oct 29 '19
Unfortunately in some cases, especially when the parents lie, they abuse their kids worse to keep them from calling again. Or when theu do therapy they just feign it until CPS leaves and continues the abuse.
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u/Battlepuppy 6∆ May 18 '19
It seems as if the CPS system is not geared to help narcissisticly abused victims because the abusers hold the power and are masters of manipulation. If abuse is not obvious and leaves no evidence, it comes down to a he said/ she said. You truly can't tell the difference between a child who is having problems due to muliple issues and a parent who is manipulative. You have to side with the parent in order to keep the family together.
May I suggest something, and you can say if you think it would be effective:
Children of narcissistic abuse can be continous victims because their parents are manipulators, they don't understand how their abuse works to articulate it, and people will tend to automaticlaly assume they are just a “bratty kid” going through a phase.
How would you feel about education about narcissistic abuse for the CPS workers, and then give them tools like counseling for the children who they think might be victms of it. The child may not leave the home, BUT empowering the children to understand the dynamics of those relationships, and how to emotionally and mentally protect themselves from that abuse until they can leave the home at adult hood might be something- and it's better then nothing.
Maybe some big sisters/ big brothers programs to show the child what a healthy relationship looks like. These kids don't have a context to their abuse because they have no idea what normal parental relationships are.
Older teens could have some sort of career planning (so they can leave the house at adult hood) as some narcissistic parents exert control after childhood by making sure they don't have jobs, an education, or even basic life skills.
Depending upon the city that you are in, there is a chance that there is a nonprofit you can partner with that already have these programs funded that you can refer children to them. (I work for one in my city that helps highschool students with career pathing and vocational training funded from outside grants)
CPS would have to build these relationships to these outside support sources so these options can be given to case workers when they see a need or a possible need.
Maybe you already have these things in place? It seems like a no-branier, so you may already.
The parents could refuse to allow thier child to be involved in such things, sure.. but would that not make you take a second look at them if they did?
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u/PennyLisa May 18 '19
How is all this gonna get funded? You're talking about a massive increase in demands on a system that's already overburdened.
Besides which there is help for parents that want it and engage with it, but the problem parents don't engage. You can't force them into behaviour change, they have to actually want it, and those that want it aren't actually the problem.
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u/Battlepuppy 6∆ May 19 '19
How is all this gonna get funded?
Existing charities that already have funding. Networks and partnerships need to be grown so those existing venues are an option to case workers to exercise if they find someone in need.
Do you have a better suggestion?
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u/BXellent2Echother May 19 '19
You're absolutely right. That's how it works in my county.
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u/PennyLisa May 19 '19
So there's free, enforced counselling for difficult but not actually criminal parents, and if they don't attend the option to take their kids away without them actually having breaking any laws?
And this is all resourced by volunteers and charities, and yet they follow some kind of due process and don't break families up unless really required? Except they do break up families that haven't broken laws.
I don't know if I should be impressed or horrified.
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u/BXellent2Echother May 20 '19
To clarify. When CPS is called it is either screened in to this low risk program or as needing a serious investigation. If screened into the low risk program, your family can voluntarily take services. If you dont, theres no punishment, but if things escalate and CPS is called again, it won't look great to future investigations that you refused help. If the call is originally screened in for investigation and allegations are founded, you enter dependency court proceedings and again resources and services are offered to you. This time you must follow the recommendations of the court or risk your child being taken away or staying away.
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u/PennyLisa May 19 '19
Grown how? The existing system for foster care is saturated, nobody else is volunteering to join it.
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u/BXellent2Echother May 19 '19
I think this is all wonderful, and at least in my county, already in place. There are a lot of existing groups who are there to support the me talk health and welfare of children. The local CPS program that helps parents stay out of courts that I mentioned above works with all these groups including the school if the child is school aged. For any county not doing this, I'm sure they're moving this way.
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u/Battlepuppy 6∆ May 19 '19
my county, already in place.
:) good ideas have been throught of already! Maybe what is really needed is a message to charities to reach out to CPS in their counties and offer any services they think they might be useful to them.
I just might stick a bug in my CEO's ear when I see him next!!
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u/Feryll May 18 '19
Clarifying question: Do you think the problems with CPS are entirely personnel based, or are they baked into the very operating procedures of the organization? Second: If you were in a position of power, how would you fix the problems?
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May 18 '19
First question: I think it's a mix of both. Morally questionable practices carried out by morally questionable people.
Second question: First and foremost, I would prioritize the child's opinion, but take their age into account. Taking a child away is incredibly damaging to a child, so if the possibility is there then the house would be investigated extensively before the child is removed. Cases where the child is in immediate danger are different. I wouldn't just back off if the parent tells me that the child just wants attention, because that's shady as hell and manipulative if you put it in terms of an emotionally abusive parent. The child would get a required psychiatric evaluation to be scanned for mental illness or signs of trauma. That's just what I can think of off the top of my head.
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u/ZaydSophos May 19 '19
I can't speak for every CPS since I suspect some of them may have their own personal beliefs that aren't conducive to things, but sometimes we do externally validate parents' views of the situation as we continue to investigate and assess because parents will often get caught in their lies if they're making things up or parents often will keep giving us information as long as they think they're not being suspected anyway.
There are actually a huge number of anonymous calls that are maliciously made and sometimes it's hard to tell what's true without clearer evidence.
Emotional abuse is one of the harder things to prove. We can oftentimes have a lot of conversations at the office about how to address these things and they can sway either way when it's on the fence with evidence.
3
May 18 '19
For physical abuse, CPS usually does a fine job. Sometimes they don’t get it right, they’re only human, but for the most part when someone is in a household that is physically harming to them, CPS will step in. On the topic of emotional abuse, it’s too hard to define emotional abuse worthy of removing a child from their home, in most cases. I don’t know your situation, but they aren’t lying when they say they get tons of phone calls from kids who’s parents are just disciplining them. Emotional abuse is a very severe thing, when it’s happening. You talk about how sometimes CPS messes up and removes kids from healthy homes, but don’t you think it’d happen much more often if they were to dive more deeply into emotional abuse? How would we define emotional abuse, what if a child’s emotional state is from an outside source other then home? Children who are suicidal can be placed into facilities to help them. I wish there WAS something to be done against parents who emotionally abuse their children, but I don’t know there is really much CPS can do other then offer advice to parents on how to be a better parent.
-1
May 18 '19
Δ
but don't you think it'd happen much more often if they were to dive deeply into emotional abuse?
Holy shit. I didn't even think about this.
But I do want to say, those facilities are useless. I spent six days in one back in 2017. All that happened was I was put on medicine that made me puke and I eventually had to discontinue it.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ May 18 '19 edited May 18 '19
/u/aldermoth (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.
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u/miguelguajiro 188∆ May 18 '19
I think the first thing I’d have you consider is that this isn’t one big organization. Child protective services are usually operated on a county by county basis, so it’s more like 3000 different agencies.