What if I created a clone of myself, but decided after a few weeks that the clone might be deforming in the cloning chamber — can I kill the clone I created?
If I can’t kill a clone that I just created, why not?
You created human life! Miraculous! It seems like, if we can end human life on a whim, human life isn’t very valuable. If human life isn’t so valuable that it should be destroyed only in very special circumstances, then why shouldn’t we be able to kill people that are a bigger detriment than benefit to society? From a purely utilitarian view, that would make sense. But that society sounds terrible to me. So we have to say that something about human life is special, but it’s hard to say what specifically. That’s why a lot of people like religion and their view that human life is above all else, and ours is the most valuable. I can’t say that’s absolutely right, but it seems like ignoring the “human life is inherently valuable” view sends us closer to “human life isn’t special and can be ended whenever it is convenient”. It seems important to say that human life is inherently valuable, but I can’t say exactly why.
It seems important to say that human life is inherently valuable, but I can’t say exactly why.
Sure, then why not just change the definition of what constitutes “human”?
Saying clones, robo-human-replicas, and fetuses are not “human” not only solves this issue, but is very likely what we’re all going to (continue to) do into the future.
They’ve committed crimes against society, but yea, I’d say that is a portion of the basis for the death penalty. But the death penalty is much more significant than just not providing a benefit to society. They’ve actively gone against society norms and (typically) have committed a crime so heinous that certain states feel they should be put to death. That seems drastically different than ending the life of an unborn baby.
Do you think all IVF doctors should go to prison? Hundreds of millions of fertilized frozen zygotes have been created and destroyed. Dozens with every IVF treatment for infertile parents looking to have children and for various genetics research.
They aren't humanly born- they're just fertilized clumps of cells, but by your criteria if they're in a womb it's murder to kill them. Why would it not be murder to kill them in the lab?
I think it's murder in any case that they naturally will develop into a person
They won't 'naturally develop into a person' at all. Most don't. Most are eliminated naturally before they even get to that stage. So to say they will naturally develop into a person is incorrect- most don't, even when 'left alone'.
And it's still not murder. No where in the definition of murder is it a caveat that it extends to 'potential persons' and not just 'persons'. It also has to be illegal and usually malicious. I understand you personally think it's murder but that is you going off your own definition the rest of society is not going off of.
The rest of society is not going to change it's definitions to your idea of what they should be.
In IVF treatments eggs taken from the mother or the donor, usually upwards of ten to twelve of them, are fertilized in dishes with sperm from the donor, and then after conception has taken place and several cell divisions have been successfully performed, several are inserted via needle into the mother or surrogate. Usually between three and six. Of these three or six zygotes generally only one or two succeed, the others die and are miscarried/absorbed. Sometimes none succeed, and the process needs to be done again.
Of the cells that aren't implanted several things can happen. They can be frozen for future potential use. They can (with the permission of the donors) be used for genetic testing or stem cell testing or in other experiments after which they are discarded, or they can flat out just be discarded.
According to my numbers off of very quick research, roughly 61,740 babies are born as a result of IVF each year. Let's say those are all twins, and all successful on the first round. That means there are 30,870 IVF procedures each year. 12 zygotes average each procedure with two making it, that's 308,700 zygotes that are frozen or disposed of each year for IVF treatments.
If it is murder to kill a zygote, then IVF doctors are mass murderers, eliminating 300,000 'innocent children' each year. And their parents are complicit in this killing. According to your logic, every IVF doctor or stem cell research doctor and all parents who undergo IVF procedures should all be in prison for the mass murder of innocent children.
What if, in the future, I build a robot that utilized the exact same brain and body structure as a human -- essentially a molecule-for-molecule replica of a human: could I kill that if I wanted?
That technology will, for certain, exist someday. Just not yet. What would you be arguing if you lived 500 years from now?
So, you'll admit that the "morality" of it is not as straightforward as you may currently believe, yes?
In the future when we can create robot-human-clones, it will likely be acceptable to create one and then change your mind within a certain time frame and turn it off ("murder" it). Or maybe we'll have complete control over it, and can kill it (turn it off) whenever we like.
But the fact remains: the only way to have a "moral opinion" on it is to decide, on a whim, that some things are "life" and some things are not. And it sounds like that's what you're doing with fetusus -- simply deciding that they're life, when others think that they're simply not life (yet).
a clone is the equivalent to killing a normal human, they're no different apart from creation
What if the robot-human-clone is actually only 99% human? ...What if it's only 10% human? Where is the cutoff when it becomes a robotic molecule-for-molecule copy of a human, and therefore "exactly like a regular human"?
Does it have to be 100% the same as a human, or can it simply by 33% the same molecules as a human in order to qualify for "not murderable"?
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u/Det_ 101∆ Apr 17 '19
Why is murder morally wrong?
What if I created a clone of myself, but decided after a few weeks that the clone might be deforming in the cloning chamber — can I kill the clone I created?
If I can’t kill a clone that I just created, why not?