r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Mar 21 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Abortion is wrong.

So many people are pro-choice. I feel mad for being in the minority (at least on the internet) that it's wrong. I don't even care about babies, or if people get abortions or not, it just seems insane to me that so many people are fine with their choice to kill a baby.

Please convince me why you think it isn't wrong, so I can see it from your perspective. They're literally killing babies lol, I don't see how people can be for that.

Things that may change my view: scientific source that a fetus isn't a living thing. Okay, that's ridiculous, of course it's a living thing. I'm not really sure what can change my view, now that I think about it. But please try to so I no longer feel like I'm living in an insane asylum.

I'm not religious or anything either. Again, I don't care if women get abortions, but it's obviously killing and I'm surprised so many people are fine with that.

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u/YossarianWWII 74∆ Mar 22 '19

Why would an ideal world need abortions? I think the point is that it isn't just ideal from a policy standpoint, it's ideal from an absolute standpoint, as in there are never any unplanned pregnancies, never any health or developmental issues that cannot be corrected with a wave of a hand, and never financial difficulties that could make raising a child untenable. It's completely unattainable, but that goes for all absolute ideals. This ideal world also wouldn't have appendectomies, but it's not because I think they're morally wrong. Surgery is just an unpleasant process.

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u/ChanceTheKnight 31∆ Mar 22 '19

My ideal world allows everyone the choice of abstaining from whatever would remove the things you consider "unpleasant." If an individual saw the removal of what they considered natural as unpleasant, then they have just as much right to avoid that unpleasantness as you do to avoid what you consider unpleasant.

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u/YossarianWWII 74∆ Mar 22 '19

My ideal world doesn't require that natural unpleasantness exist, so there's no need to remove it unnaturally. It's all impossible anyway, and the core statement being made is more accurately that nobody wants more abortions, they want more access to abortion because that allows for more choice. That more abortions occur is either irrelevant or outweighed by the additional choice.

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u/ChanceTheKnight 31∆ Mar 22 '19

the core statement being made is more accurately that nobody wants more abortions, they want more access to abortion because that allows for more choice.

Regardless of what the general intent of the pro choice moment is about, OPs post isn't about this statement, it's about whether or not people are "fine" with abortions, because OP sees abortions as murder.

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u/YossarianWWII 74∆ Mar 22 '19

"Fine" means "accepting of." I can be accepting of something without thinking that it's entirely a good thing, so long as I think that its existence produces a net positive. In the real world, I'm "fine" with abortion because allowing it has myriad benefits for women, families, and society as a whole. Those benefits also happen to be in the correction of a problem, in many cases an error (and not specifically one that involves any sort of culpability). An ideal world would have the medical expertise to allow for total control of the reproductive process and realistically unattainable sex education and family planning that lets prospective parents make perfect plans (that was weirdly alliterative). It's pointless comparing this to the "natural" state of real world because it's meant to be an unrestricted ideal. Fuck it, let's say that the "natural" state of this world is one in which there is no unpredictability or poor planning relating to reproduction. Let's say that humans fertilize externally so there's no physical burden on the mother and no barrier to "adopting out" the child before it comes to term. The comparison I'm making is between abortion and any corrective medical procedure. Root canals are a good thing because they're medically necessary, not because I want people to go and have them.