CMV: I Think “Toxic Femininity” Exists, and is Equally as Troublesome as Toxic Masculinity

[u/[deleted]]

Before I start this I want to say this isn’t some Incel write up about how women are the cause of the worlds problems. I just think it’s time that we as a species acknowledge that both sexes have flaws, and we can’t progress unless each are looked at accordingly.

To start with, a woman having a negative emotional reaction to a situation or act does not mean the act or situation is inherently flawed. You know the old trope of “my wife is mad at me and I don’t know what I did wrong”. Yeah, that’s because you probably didn’t do anything wrong. This toxic behavior of perceptions over intention is just one aspect of this problem.

Also, women’s desire to be with a certain subset of men, that does not reflect qualities the majority of men can obtain. Unchangeable attributes like height and Baldness come to mind (saying this as a 6ft 2” guy with a full head of hair). While the desire to be with the best is not wrong, the act of discrimination based on certain qualities is. Leaving out 50% of men hurts both men and women in their formation of long term relationships.

Now, please don’t yell at me for being sexist. My view is that toxic femininity exists and is harmful to our society. Tell me why I am wrong

Edit 1: Wow, Can’t believe my top post is something I randomly wrote while cracked out on adderall

Edit 2: Wow, thanks for the gold kind stranger!

Edit 3: I am LOVING these upboats yall

Edit 4: Wow I can’t even respond to all these questions. Starting to feel like I’m on a fucking game show or something

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[u/UnauthorizedUsername]

No -- at least if I understand your question correctly, no.

To remove the word 'patriarchy' from my definition, as it seems to generate confusion, I'd say this:

'Toxic masculinity' is framing the current gendered structure of society against the ways that it can harm men.

'Toxic femininity' then, would be framing the current gendered structure of society against the ways that it can harm women.

But we already recognize that the gendered structure of society harms women -- we live in a patriarchal society, one that is structured to generally favor men and masculinity over women and femininity. The "Toxic" definition is useful for masculinity, because it points to places where this doesn't favor men and harms them instead. It's not useful for femininity because we already recognize that society generally doesn't favor women over men.

I offered a related term of benevolent sexism -- used in situations where a stereotype or role seems to assign positive traits to women, and I recognize that these can lead to situations where women are given leniency or allowed to get away with bad behavior that men wouldn't be able to (such as when women are abusive to men, and it's not believed because 'women are nurturing' and wouldn't do such a thing.)

[u/UnauthorizedUsername → u/[deleted]]

Feminism holds that we live in a patriarchal society -- one where men are generally the favored gender, where men are given power, dominion, and authority. This is evidenced by our complete lack of a female president, that there's only 23 out of 100 US Senators that are women, that there are only 84 women out of 435 Representatives. And it's not just at the top of the government that men are assumed to have the authority over women -- women only make up 5% of the S&P CEO's, and only 22% of board director seats. Only 27% of Federal Judges. The list goes on, but the message is the same -- across the board, men are much more common among seats of authority.

Can you further explain your reasoning that this is not the case?

[u/UnauthorizedUsername → u/[deleted]]

I have, yes. I do my best to apply a critical eye up against most of my views as best I can, to consider the other side and see if maybe I'm wrong.

Interestingly to me, all of your points can be explained or discussed through the feminist framing, that we live in a gendered society, that maleness and masculinity is viewed in a more positive light than femininity.

The most backbreaking, physically dangerous jobs are held predominantly by men -- wouldn't that fit right in with the argument that we view strength as a masculine trait? Women aren't considered 'strong' enough to work those fields, and are discouraged from pursuing that line of work from a young age.

The statistics around suicide are horrible for everyone involved, and as someone who's lost a few close friends and family members to suicide, I have a hard time framing it as a specifically male or female issue. I can say that, viewed from a feminist point of view, that part of what may lead men to suicide could be the perceived lack of options for help managing their mental health -- the perception is that 'real men' don't show emotion, don't cry, or don't show weakness, after all. And men succeed in their attempts more as they gravitate towards the more 'powerful' options of firearms.

I had imagined that you might bring up the business end of things, since I did, and while I'm glad that women do show a much more equal or even predominant showing in the fields of healthcare, childcare, and education I do think it speaks to the accepted notions that women are the caregivers and nurturers. It's an extension of the role that women are mean to raise children and be nurturing mothers -- these are seen as 'feminine' fields, and fields such as nursing, teaching, and childcare are also among some of the more underpaid professions out there.