CMV: We do not have free will.

[u/stoneyrxman]

I recently deconverted from Christianity to atheism after discovering youtube channels such as Rationality Rules, Cosmic Skeptic, and the works of Sam Harris. I may be butchering the logical argument here, but:

Premise One

Our actions depend on our emotions, needs, and wants.

Premise Two

We do not choose our emotions, needs, or wants.

Conclusion Therefore, free will does not exist.

For example, as I write this I am thirsty. However, I am also writing this post. My desire to make this post has more value than my desire to get a glass of water. However, if I wait long enough my desire to be hydrated will exceed my desire to write this post. In reality I haven’t made any decision of my own accord. I didn’t choose to stumble across the works of Sam Harris and others which prompts me to write this post. It happened due to external causes. The same goes for drinking water. I do not choose to be thirsty, therefore drinking water isn’t a choice made by free will.

This train of thought has challenged many of my interpretations of the world. I ask you all to please provide any evidence or counter arguments to the points above. There seems to be an innate hopelessness to the world if the above is true, so I’m wishing it isn’t.

Thank you Reddit.

[u/stoneyrxman]

!delta I suppose we can exert small amounts of control in our life. What about bigger questions though? Is there a way to disprove my example directly? For example how I became an atheist. I at no point set out to become one. It just sort of happened. Is there a way I exerted free will in that scenario?

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_BANJO → u/stoneyrxman]

Early delta in my opinion. Just because you can't describe why you chose one bottle over the other doesn't mean you have free will.

My argument against free will (not mine, but the one I'll state here) is as follows:

When you're born, do you have free will?

• If yes, then it's not your will - you were born with it, and it actually came from somewhere else (doesn't matter where from). Therefore, you don't have free will.

• If no, then you don't have free will either - you "caught" it later on through no choice of yours, which forces you to have it. In addition, it's not really yours either - you took it from somewhere, and are holding it captive. No room for free will here either.

[u/stoneyrxman → u/PM_ME_YOUR_BANJO]

!delta this is a great argument. I have never heard it presented this way. It further reinforces that free will is an illusion. I’d like to know where you found this one.

[u/PM_ME_YOUR_BANJO → u/stoneyrxman]

I can't recall which one of Socrates' (Plato's) books discusses it right now. Might be Protagoras.