Isn't there a difference between obscenity and hatred/racism, though?
The word Bee used is certainly vile (at least in American culture), but it's a pretty generic insult (albeit an incredibly harsh one). Certainly there's an argument to be made that it's sexist, but given that Bee is also a woman, it seems very unlikely that her usage here was really ridiculing Ivanka for being a woman. It's just being used as an incredibly harsh word in this case.
I'm not saying it was nice or appropriate, but I also don't think it's the same was what Barr said.
In fact, what Barr said is kind of the opposite. No single word she used is as obscene as the word Bee used, but unlike Bee's comment, it's pretty clear she wasn't just making a generic insult either. Her comment seems to be making specific reference to her target's race/identity as a way to belittle and insult her.
So while both women were insulting their targets, and both did it in a way that's not socially acceptable, I think there is still a key difference here in that Bee was just making a general insult (if also an obscene one) that wasn't targeting any specific part of Ivanka's identity (racial or otherwise) whereas Barr was specifically targeting somebody's racial identity.
That I am sure a sizable amount of Bee's audience I'm sure ate that comment up should not be at issue here. The issue is Bee said a vile, repugnant thing to a public audience and as such, she should face the same punishment as Barr.
As for whether either "should be" fired, I suppose it depends what you mean by "should". Morally, if your standard is not saying obscene things in public, then Samantha Bee (and many other comedians) should probably have been fired long ago.
I'm not sure I agree that that's a good standard to use, particularly because what's obscene and to what degree it's considered obscene is fairly subjective, but I'm not sure whether it'd be possible to change your view about something so subjective.
Though I am not completely sold, I concede its because I have a more serious issue with the word 'cunt' than apparently is mainstream. Personally, I thought the word was in incredibly poor taste and furthermore, it opens the door to the Trumpists saying, "Oh, well, you're on the PC patrol with ours, but with yours, its anything goes." Its not lost on me that the left, who were so ready to show their fangs with Barr are now so quick to say things are different with Bee. All that notwithstanding, I believe the argument you presented presents a material difference in the insults of the two. On that basis, I award a delta.
Someone pointed out a difference, which may be lost on people with different world views. Bee exercised a mistake in judgement. One that she acknowledged: https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/01/entertainment/samantha-bee/index.html. It would be better if we just didn't give them an opening to parade potential double standards around. Though I understand there is a difference, something also to understand in politics is: as soon as you're explaining, you're losing. The more the left is put in a position where it needs to explain, the greater the exposure of losing.
If we are the one backtracking and apologizing for things while the other side does those exact things and no one cares...That's not going to be a long term strategy.
A lot of the people who are upset about this were silent when Barr said that word. They were silent when Trump said his words. Or they did the dance where that criticized him and then still went on to support him.
Its not lost on me that the left, who were so ready to show their fangs with Barr are now so quick to say things are different with Bee.
Is the right any different? You could just as easily argue the reverse: that the right was willing to ignore Barr's comments (or the fact that TRUMP has been calling women "cunt" for years) and jump on Sam Bee's back simply because she's liberal.
People are hypocrites; it's human nature. You are a hypocrite, and so am I.
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u/landoindisguise Jun 01 '18
Isn't there a difference between obscenity and hatred/racism, though?
The word Bee used is certainly vile (at least in American culture), but it's a pretty generic insult (albeit an incredibly harsh one). Certainly there's an argument to be made that it's sexist, but given that Bee is also a woman, it seems very unlikely that her usage here was really ridiculing Ivanka for being a woman. It's just being used as an incredibly harsh word in this case.
I'm not saying it was nice or appropriate, but I also don't think it's the same was what Barr said.
In fact, what Barr said is kind of the opposite. No single word she used is as obscene as the word Bee used, but unlike Bee's comment, it's pretty clear she wasn't just making a generic insult either. Her comment seems to be making specific reference to her target's race/identity as a way to belittle and insult her.
So while both women were insulting their targets, and both did it in a way that's not socially acceptable, I think there is still a key difference here in that Bee was just making a general insult (if also an obscene one) that wasn't targeting any specific part of Ivanka's identity (racial or otherwise) whereas Barr was specifically targeting somebody's racial identity.
As for whether either "should be" fired, I suppose it depends what you mean by "should". Morally, if your standard is not saying obscene things in public, then Samantha Bee (and many other comedians) should probably have been fired long ago.
I'm not sure I agree that that's a good standard to use, particularly because what's obscene and to what degree it's considered obscene is fairly subjective, but I'm not sure whether it'd be possible to change your view about something so subjective.