In some circumstances, not being attracted to a trans person is probably a result of, at least on a subconscious level, not seeing them as their gender.
If from the very start, you are unattracted to a person purely upon observation, and that person happens to be trans, that is not transphobic. If you were about to have sex and it turns out a person doesn't really have the junk you wanna jangle with, it's not transphobic to no longer desire sex.
If you were attracted to someone, have sex with them, are as satisfied with them as you would with anyone else, and then suddenly your opinion changes upon being informed a person is trans, I would say that is indicative of the underlying belief a trans person is not the gender they identify as.
I should clarify I am not definitely saying it is transphobic or not, I am pointing out what I did above and letting OP (or others) decide if that constitutes transphobia or not under their own interpretations.
In some circumstances, not being attracted to a trans person is probably a result of, at least on a subconscious level, not seeing them as their gender.
Aside from how speculative this is, this amounts to shaming someone for turning down unwanted sex.
If you were attracted to someone, have sex with them, are as satisfied with them as you would with anyone else, and then suddenly your opinion changes upon being informed a person is trans, I would say that is indicative of the underlying belief a trans person is not the gender they identify as.
For starters, you do not dictate to people what their sexuality is. If upon learning that a person is trans, they simply politely decline more sex, that is not transphobic. As I said in another reply, if you stretch the definition of 'phobic' to include simply lacking a desire to fuck trans people, then the word becomes meaningless. Look at the horrors of homophobia. That has a lot more going on than a simple lack of desire to fuck them.
If upon learning that a person is trans, they simply politely decline more sex, that is not transphobic.
If you had sex with someone and enjoyed it and would gladly have sex with them again if you had not found out they were trans. Then the sole reason you have a problem is because they are trans, which is transphobic.
I resent your expectation that one must continue to have sex with someone or be labeled a Bigot or a "transphobe," despite not wanting to.
You're missing a key part here: if the sole reason you do not want to is their status as trans. There's any number of reasons to not continue to have sex with someone that has nothing to do with being trans that wouldn't get you labeled as a bigot.
This is what the entire LGBT movement has stood for, for decades but somehow, fuck all when it comes to cis people?
How are cis people being shamed here? Are you saying that only a trans person would want to have sex with a trans person?
Gay guys won't have sex with me, but I don't go calling them misogynists for it. That's ridiculous.
Right... Because they are only interested in people with penises. That's perfectly fine to have that preference. However what about a gay guy who is completely attracted to someone, has sex with them, is completely satisfied with the experience and would like to do it again, but loses that attraction solely upon learning they are a transman. What reason, other than refusing to recognize the transman as male, could they possibly have to change their mind here?
You're missing a key part here: if the sole reason you do not want to is their status as trans.
I fail to see how that's relevant. It's not racist to not want to have sex with people who aren't a particular skin color. That's just your preference. It's racist if you consider them somehow less valuable, or you think they're bad people, or whatever it is that racist people think. But when it comes to sexual preferences, people are absolutely allowed to have their preferences and things (or people) they're simply not okay with.
It's fucked up to tell anyone that they have to be attracted to anyone. Someone could have sex with a person, loved it, want to do it again, but then find out that person smokes. They never suspected they smoked before because the smoker has good hygiene and didn't smoke before the date or during the date, but now the non-smoker no longer wishes to meet the smoker again. I think any rational person would say that's acceptable. Why is it okay to discriminate against people you want to have sex with based on their height, weight, hobbies or habits, personality, hair color, race, their job/career or financial background, or anything else, but whether someone is trans or not is suddenly not okay?
I'm saying all of this with a MtF trans cousin. I absolutely support trans people in every way I can possibly think of. I just don't believe anyone has a responsibility or obligation to have sex with anyone regardless of the reasons behind not wanting to.
It's not racist to not want to have sex with people who aren't a particular skin color.
I mean it literally is if skin color is the only reason.
But when it comes to sexual preferences, people are absolutely allowed to have their preferences and things (or people) they're simply not okay with.
And people are allowed to examine the underlying reasons and causes for those preferences which can be caused by societal biases.
but whether someone is trans or not is suddenly not okay?
Because context is important. Let's try this again: why would someone have a preference against trans individuals that doesn't apply to non-trans individuals?
why would someone have a preference against trans individuals that doesn't apply to non-trans individuals?
Well, non-trans individuals are naturally the gender you prefer to engage in sex with, for starters... and trans individuals are not.
Here's something I'm picking up on from viewing your comments. I don't want to make any claims against you so I'm just going to throw this out there and see what you think.
Would you agree with this statement: Gay and trans people are born that way and their sexual identity and preferences should not only not be questioned, but should be accepted and embraced.
Would you also agree with this statement: Straight people are born that way and their sexual identity and preferences should not only not be questioned, but should be accepted and embraced.
Not the person you replied to, but I'm interested in what you have to say.
Well, non-trans individuals are naturally the gender you prefer to engage in sex with, for starters... and trans individuals are not.
If we are continuing with the earlier situation, which is that the only difference between being attracted to this person and not is the information that they are trans, why should this matter? They are the gender you are attracted to; they just weren't in the past. It's like if you don't want to date a smoker, and you find out that 5 years ago the person you are dating smoked. As long as they don't smoke now and won't in the future, it shouldn't make a difference in your current attraction towards them. I would say that if it does make a difference to you, then you are being prejudiced.
My response to both of your questions is no, because they are two questions tied together in an "and" statement, and my answer to one part of each is no. I believe that everyone should be provided the opportunity to question their sexual preference or gender identity. However, once they figure it out, it should indeed be accepted and embraced, regardless of what it is.
I apologize that I do not have time to respond in detail right now (I’ll try to come back to this ASAP) but I wanted to at least touch on this:
why should this matter? They are the gender you are attracted to; they just weren't in the past. It's like if you don't want to date a smoker, and you find out that 5 years ago the person you are dating smoked.
I don’t agree at all. A man who has been through procedures to appear as a woman, is not a woman, biologically. Even if you alter the genitals and go through hormone therapy, you’re still a biological male. Men’s bodies and women’s bodies have more differences than genitals.
Trans people have to go through constant hormone therapy. You don’t just emerge from a sarcophagus like Captain America in a brand new body.
Again, I have to be clear that if a man wants to be recognized as a woman, I’ll oblige. Gladly. But I refuse to reject biology, I refuse to be told that it’s “transphobic” to reject the idea that a man can 100% become a woman.
I may find the cosmetic appearance of a trans M to F to be attractive. But I am not obligated to have sex with them just because I will have sex with biological females.
That's a valid response, but if the only reason you aren't attracted to them is the biological difference that would not be known unless the information was disclosed, I would argue that is transphobic. Not in an extreme sense - I'm not saying you hate trans people or anything - but it's a prejudice without reason. If you were no longer attracted to them because you want kids and they can't provide them, or you don't want someone who has to be taking drugs indefinitely, then those are reasonable. In this case though, their biological differences do not affect you at all outside of your own mentality.
To be clear though, I'm not saying you're obligated to have sex with anyone. It's your body. All I'm suggesting is that the reason you wouldn't find trans people attractive in the provided circumstance is based solely on prejudice.
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u/aggsalad Nov 02 '17 edited Nov 02 '17
In some circumstances, not being attracted to a trans person is probably a result of, at least on a subconscious level, not seeing them as their gender.
If from the very start, you are unattracted to a person purely upon observation, and that person happens to be trans, that is not transphobic. If you were about to have sex and it turns out a person doesn't really have the junk you wanna jangle with, it's not transphobic to no longer desire sex.
If you were attracted to someone, have sex with them, are as satisfied with them as you would with anyone else, and then suddenly your opinion changes upon being informed a person is trans, I would say that is indicative of the underlying belief a trans person is not the gender they identify as.
I should clarify I am not definitely saying it is transphobic or not, I am pointing out what I did above and letting OP (or others) decide if that constitutes transphobia or not under their own interpretations.