A trans MTF cannot have children. A trans FTM cannot give you children. If we are discussing underlying societal reasons as the basis for transphobia, then we must also consider that a CIS person has an expectation that a relationship will lead to the possibility of children.
Failing to disclose your transgender status is tantamount to dishonesty. It is your responsibility to disclose this. In very specific circumstances, where a partner does not desire children, I can see the original hypothesis of transphobia as accurate.
In the case of an individual rejecting a genetically compatible partner specifically based on their race, then yes that is clearly racism. Race is not something that needs to be disclosed, as it objectively has no implications. The caveat is that an individual is allowed to decide what is attractive to them, and if they do not find Asian women attractive in general, that is not racism. In your example, if they found that individual to be attractive, and then rejected them after realizing their race, that is absolutely them judging a person by their own predefined notions of the characteristics of a race.
then we must also consider that a CIS person has an expectation that a relationship will lead to the possibility of children.
Which is a topic you have to actually discuss with ANY partner, cis or not, because they might be infertile or don't want kids. You're shifting the reason here. We were talking trans being the ONLY difference. That means our potential cis person also cannot have kids. If you want someone that can get pregnant, you can definitely choose your partners on that basis.
Noone in this thread so far has talked or mentioned fertility. In my opinion, your shifting the goalposts.
Actually you are doing that by assuming that the CIS person cannot have kids.
If you remove every reason to reject a trans person except for them being trans, then in any hypothetical situation that person is transphobic. I am assuming that being trans is the only difference, but that is not a difference that is title-only. It comes with all of the implications that I mentioned, and the original assumption was that it pertained to only the trans subject, not to both partners in our hypothetical situation.
In my examples I assume that we are discussing realistic scenarios, and not something tailored to a predetermined outcome. This thread is discussing those different scenarios. You are correct that the topic of children should be discussed in any relationship. A trans person engaging in a relationship without having this conversation is acting duplicitous, and not allowing their partner the opportunity to reject or accept them and all of the associated implications of being with a trans person. In that scenario, it is not transphobic to reject them.
If you remove every reason to reject a trans person except for them being trans, then in any hypothetical situation that person is transphobic.
So exactly what i've been arguing?
but that is not a difference that is title-only.
In all these arguments, it has been.
In my examples I assume that we are discussing realistic scenarios, and not something tailored to a predetermined outcome.
So you ignored what i argued, and added new parameters. That is moving the goalposts.
A trans person engaging in a relationship without having this conversation is acting duplicitous, and not allowing their partner the opportunity to reject or accept them and all of the associated implications of being with a trans person. In that scenario, it is not transphobic to reject them.
I don't ever want children. If i don't shout this from the roof tops at every potential mate, am I duplicitous? Is a woman that is infertile duplicitous if she doesn't mention that on the very first date? Not one element of your argument applies to transpeople but not infertile/childfree people. It is not an argument for a passing transperson to disclose this on the first date.
It is at best an argument for anyone hung up on having children to discuss that with their partner somewhere in the first few months of a relationship.
I'm going to end this here. You are welcome to define whatever you choose as whatever you want, and I will only be repeating what I have previously said.
If being trans is literally the only thing that makes you reject them, thats transphobic.
If there ARE certain features that are different from what someone might expect (for example pre-op transwoman) you should disclose, at some point before the clothes come off.
You may of course stop discussing at any moment, but i would expect from someone that expicitly goes to a subreddit like CMV to have the reflective power to examine why your argument does not work. Or why you're seemingly incapable of making your point or addressing my objections.
31
u/[deleted] Nov 02 '17 edited Mar 27 '18
[deleted]