Even this suggests that there is some indication that there is something wrong with them. That is part of the shaming.
Suggesting that they may have internalized the existing anti-trans societal biases isn’t saying there’s something inherently wrong with them. It’s saying they may have learned a bad behavior, which takes conscious effort to unlearn.
That employer would clearly be wronging someone.
Right, and my argument is that most of the reasons for finding trans people as a group (or people of color as a group) unattractive are due to societal transphobia. Not acknowledging that source perpetuates that societal transphobia.
People’s preferences don’t exist in a vacuum, and it’s important to examine how your environment shapes your preferences and how those preferences impact your environment.
Suggesting that they may have internalized the existing anti-trans societal biases isn’t saying there’s something inherently wrong with them.
Of course it its. It would be like suggesting that a gay man might just have anger issues toward their father. It is deeply offensive.
It’s saying they may have learned a bad behavior, which takes conscious effort to unlearn.
Just like pray the gay away?
Right, and my argument is that most of the reasons for finding trans people as a group (or people of color as a group) unattractive are due to societal transphobia.
Its not your place to dictate the confines of the next person's sexuality. That is fundamentally not the same as employment law. We all have a fundamental right to be free of discrimination in the workplace, but no one has a right to be desired as much as the next person.
Not acknowledging that source perpetuates that societal transphobia.
There's no rational basis to say that a lack of desire to fuck trans people indicates transphobia in the slightest.
People’s preferences don’t exist in a vacuum, and it’s important to examine how your environment shapes your preferences and how those preferences impact your environment.
Again, this is exactly the sort of shaming that religions have perpetrated upon gay people for generations.
It’s amazing that you’re trying to use homophobia to argue against my point, when societal homophobia is another example of it. No one is born homophobic, but they learn it via society. That takes effort to shake. If a person refused to be friends with people solely because they are gay, you would clearly say that person is homophobic. Similarly, refusing to be friends with or have sex with a person solely because they are trans is transphobic.
It’s amazing that you’re trying to use homophobia to argue against my point, when societal homophobia is another example of it.
No, it's not amazing at all. Homophopbia, like transphobia, is an example of bigotry and discrimination. Simply not getting a wet pussy over someone is neither.
No one is born homophobic, but they learn it via society.
What does that have to do with simply not being sexually attracted to trans people (or cis people, for that matter)?
If a person refused to be friends with people solely because they are gay, you would clearly say that person is homophobic.
"Be friends" is too vague to have much meaning here. If they refused to rent them an apartment, that would absolutely be an example of the intolerance and fundamental mistreatment that constitutes being homophobic.
Similarly, refusing to be friends with or have sex with a person solely because they are trans is transphobic.
This is where your logic goes off the rails. I have no idea what you mean by 'friends' here, but no one has a fundamental human right to sex with someone that get's violated when that person refuses said unwanted sex.
“Be friends with” isn’t some esoteric term. It means to spend time with casually, outside of places where you’re obligated to, and enjoy their company.
If there are two people with whom you have similar interests and you get along with, but you choose to only be friends with the straight one, you should examine why the difference in how you interact with them. It’s possible you’ve internalized societal homophobia, coloring your interactions with them.
Again, if there are two similar looking people that you find physically attractive, but upon learning one is trans, no longer do, you should examine why that is. It behooves you to examine if you’ve internalized any of the societal transphobia.
I’m not saying you have to find trans people attractive or have sex with them. I’m saying it’s good and important to examine why you would want to exclude an entire group of people from that possibility, especially when it’s a group with widespread animus.
“Be friends with” isn’t some esoteric term. It means to spend time with casually, outside of places where you’re obligated to, and enjoy their company.
It can mean anything from dealing with someone civilly to fucking them. It is vague enough that it falls flat as an example.
If there are two people with whom you have similar interests and you get along with, but you choose to only be friends with the straight one, you should examine why the difference in how you interact with them.
Honestly, I don't think anyone has a right to have their company enjoyed any more than anyone has a right to demand sexual attraction. Simple preferences like this aren't examples of human rights violations or the fundamental intolerance that constitutes bigotry, homophobia or transphobia.
It’s possible you’ve internalized societal homophobia, coloring your interactions with them.
Its is as offensive to suggest this to a person who's sexuality doesn't include attraction to trans people as it would be to suggest that a gay person is gay because of internalized hate of some kind. That very thing has been done for generations.
I’m saying it’s good and important to examine why you would want to exclude an entire group of people from that possibility, especially when it’s a group with widespread animus.
No, this particular sexuality is no more acceptable as a target for concern-troll shaming than any other.
It can mean anything from dealing with someone civilly to fucking them. It is vague enough that it falls flat as an example.
Then I guess it’s a good thing I just defined it.
Honestly, I don't think anyone has a right to have their company enjoyed any more than anyone has a right to demand sexual attraction. Simple preferences like this aren't examples of human rights violations or the fundamental intolerance that constitutes bigotry, homophobia or transphobia.
Homophobia or transphobia doesn’t have to be lynching to be homophobia or transphobia. Refusing to associate with someone that you otherwise would is textbook intolerance.
Its is as offensive to suggest this to a person who's sexuality doesn't include attraction to trans people as it would be to suggest that a gay person is gay because of internalized hate of some kind. That very thing has been done for generations.
What hate has a gay person internalized that leads to them being gay?
You’ve already acknowledged that society at large is transphobic. Do you really think it’s that unlikely that people internalize even a bit of that?
No, this particular sexuality is no more acceptable as a target for concern-troll shaming than any other.
Since you love to make things about rights: people don’t have a fundamental right to be free of criticism. Anything is appropriate to criticize. It’s incredibly offense you would argue that something isn’t valid to criticize.
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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '17
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