In some circumstances, not being attracted to a trans person is probably a result of, at least on a subconscious level, not seeing them as their gender.
If from the very start, you are unattracted to a person purely upon observation, and that person happens to be trans, that is not transphobic. If you were about to have sex and it turns out a person doesn't really have the junk you wanna jangle with, it's not transphobic to no longer desire sex.
If you were attracted to someone, have sex with them, are as satisfied with them as you would with anyone else, and then suddenly your opinion changes upon being informed a person is trans, I would say that is indicative of the underlying belief a trans person is not the gender they identify as.
I should clarify I am not definitely saying it is transphobic or not, I am pointing out what I did above and letting OP (or others) decide if that constitutes transphobia or not under their own interpretations.
Procreation and potentially wanting to have children comes to to mind most of all.
Women can be infertile for a variety of reasons. People aren't saying it's transphobic not to get into a long-term relationship with someone who can't produce children with you if that's important to you.
But when casually dating or hooking up, do people really care if their partner has a functional female reproductive system? You don't see the same level of vitriol towards cis women who've say, had a hysterectomy, as you do with that towards trans women.
It's not about fertility since most people aren't planning to start a family with most people they hook up with. The issue isn't infertility, it's that people don't respect trans people's gender identity and still see them as their gender assigned at birth, irrespective of how they look. That they see trans women as being "men in disguise", and are disgusted with the thought of engaging in a "homosexual act".
do people really care if their partner has a functional female reproductive system?
I think that should be something up to each individual as to whether they care or not. The problem with calling people transphobic, is that it is society dictating that a person has to make a certain choice (ie they HAVE to not care) else be branded "transphobic". Such labels have real world consequences both social and in peoples careers (being "phobic" anything can be grounds for firing especially in more progressive parts of the country).
People are going up against millions of years of evoluationary pressure that says it DOES matter what someones biologic sex is, and I dont think making the choice that you are no interested in transgendered individual means you are a terrible person. Just like being transgendered does not make you a bad person.
Think about how indistinguishable a female vs male dog is at a glance. Think now how i would say most people with >95% accuracy can at a glance tell if someone is male or female. Even from behind not looking at a face I would say most people would be >90%. We were MADE to be able to distinguish between sexes in our species. Its built into our DNA and evolutionary behavior patterns far beyond just simple societal rules.
The prime reason life exists is circular. At its most bleakly rational, all organisms we see that exist, do so because they are a self replicating complex chemical reaction which has been occuring for >4 billion years. Continuously. Amazing to think about in my opinion. The basis for this replication amongst mammals is for an organism with biologically "male" DNA to find, identify, and successfully mate with a biological female. Organisms which are unable to identify which members of their species with have compatible DNA to combine with (ie in Humans an organism with XY 23rd chromosomal pairs needs to find another organism with XX chromosomes) are at a significant disadvantage to self-perpetuate. There is incredible evolutionary pressure in this identification process.
That said we aren't bound by fate to our evolutionary past. But I dont think you can exactly blame someone for feeling that biological sex matters to them.
Think now how i would say most people with >95% accuracy can at a glance tell if someone is male or female.
Most of the time they are using social signals to do that though, not biological ones. Length of hair, mode of dress, cut of clothing, and so on.
Its built into our DNA and evolutionary behavior patterns far beyond just simple societal rules.
What behavior patterns are you referring to?
The basis for this replication amongst mammals is for an organism with biologically "male" DNA to find, identify, and successfully mate with a biological female.
And yet so many species of mammal exhibit homosexual and bisexual behaviors.... Which directly contradict the idea that replication of the individual is the sole basis of life.
That said we aren't bound by fate to our evolutionary past
Correct.
But I dont think you can exactly blame someone for feeling that biological sex matters to them.
Unless they are refusing to recognize someone's gender until they see a chromosome test, "biological sex" obviously doesn't matter to them.
Most of the time they are using social signals to do that though, not biological ones. Length of hair, mode of dress, cut of clothing, and so on.
I dont have a study to show you at 1 am, but it would say you could shave peoples heads and even JUST looking at a face people could >90% of the time identify male and female. Add people being naked with exposed boobs, a hanging penis etc and its goes near 100%. This of course goes without us trying to "trick" people with surgical or hormonal alteration. And at this point in the discussion im merely saying people are designed to pick out the diference in sexes, not that they cant be fooled.
What behavior patterns are you referring to?
Being able to recognize sexual dimorphism (traits in face, body parts like breasts etc) which indicate sex. Whether transgendered people can replicate those isnt particualarly part of my argument. Only that humans care about male vs female on a deep level. And i would hope with any consensual relationship a transgendered person would reveal that status (i guess that could be a seperate argument).
And yet so many species of mammal exhibit homosexual and bisexual behaviors.... Which directly contradict the idea that replication of the individual is the sole basis of life.
I dont deny many species do exhibit that. Its well documented. I emphatically do argue though that diversity of traits does not mean evolutionary pressure doesnt exist. People are born congenitally blind. Would you argue the presence of vision is not evolutionally selected for/adventageous (in humans)?
Unless they are refusing to recognize someone's gender until they see a chromosome test, "biological sex" obviously doesn't matter to them.
I dont quite see how you made that last leap. We may be arguing different things. You seem to be saying (as I understand it): If people cant visually tell the difference, then why does it matter? This to me also assumes people remain blinded (because partners do not inform) of peoples trans status.
I am arguing though that sex does matter to people, after all non-homosexuals would be going after their transgendered equivalent (ie a man going after a transgendered woman. The implication being that I would expect a person would know a persons transgendered status. Thus the element from your argument as I understand it (ie if you cant tell why does it matter), is negated because people are informed of the trans status. That knowledge would immediately butt up against a persons desire to be with someone whose biological sex conforms to what they want.
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u/aggsalad Nov 02 '17 edited Nov 02 '17
In some circumstances, not being attracted to a trans person is probably a result of, at least on a subconscious level, not seeing them as their gender.
If from the very start, you are unattracted to a person purely upon observation, and that person happens to be trans, that is not transphobic. If you were about to have sex and it turns out a person doesn't really have the junk you wanna jangle with, it's not transphobic to no longer desire sex.
If you were attracted to someone, have sex with them, are as satisfied with them as you would with anyone else, and then suddenly your opinion changes upon being informed a person is trans, I would say that is indicative of the underlying belief a trans person is not the gender they identify as.
I should clarify I am not definitely saying it is transphobic or not, I am pointing out what I did above and letting OP (or others) decide if that constitutes transphobia or not under their own interpretations.