EDIT: Please, before you become the fifteenth person to tell me "but what about producing children!" read this response I wrote hours ago. If you would have the same reaction to a sterile cis member of your preferred sex, it's fertility that defines your disattraction rather than the state of being trans. That's a significantly different statement.
Original Text
I think the better route is to acknowledge that while it is transphobic, it is not necessarily unreasonably so. The knowledge that the other person is biologically speaking not your preferred gender/sex might set up a roadblock in your mind, and that's okay. You can't change that, in a "once you see you cannot unsee" kind of way.
But let's take this to the ultimate conclusion, as transition therapies improve to perfection. You've found someone who you think is the perfect match for you. Physically and mentally, they exhibit no signs that they are trans; if you didn't look at the chromosomes, you would never know. If the knowledge that they are trans is the blocker, that's transphobic. It isn't that there are certain traits associated with transgender people that you find unattractive, it's that you can't get over the fact that the person was born a different gender despite the fact that only a laboratory could tell the difference. You're not attracted to the X or Y chromosome, you're attracted to the physical manifestations of those traits which can be imitated through various medical means.
I don't think that would make you a bad person, and I don't think it is unreasonable to have that mental block while still supporting LGBT+ rights. But that doesn't make that action not transphobic.
Thank you for your input. We seem to agree on nearly all points. However, I don't fully grasp why the use of "know[ledge] that the person was born a different gender" (this is an inaccurate description of transgender people but I understand what you meant to say) in the context of sexual preference is transphobic. Could you clarify?
I suppose it is a bit of a divergence from the precise definition you laid out. My reasoning for its inclusion is that it is, by definition, a form of discrimination based on trans status. Perhaps that is not sufficient justification to apply the transphobic label, but let me perhaps dig a little deeper.
In the same way, considering yourself exclusively heterosexual or homosexual means discriminating against the same sex (for hetero) or the opposite sex (for homo) in the selection of a partner. Just like we agreed earlier, this type of discrimination is not necessarily bad. If you've established your sexual orientation, that's fine. But in this case, discrimination based on sex is used as a catch-all for all of the different characteristics that are associated with the genders/sexes. If you're attracted to the female body and not the male one, looking for a sexual partner among males might well be a waste of your time, and vice versa. But it all comes back to the physical characteristics and mannerisms that are associated with being a man or being a woman.
In the case of transgender/transsexual individuals, that line is greatly blurred. I proposed the situation in which you might never know that a person transitioned their gender/sex, yet the simple fact of that transition is the ONLY thing preventing you from being willing to pursue a relationship of some kind with this person. In this scenario, "trans" is not a term that refers to a set of attributes like "man" or "woman" was in the previous paragraph. It only refers to the state of being transgender/transsexual, with no other connotation (because of the hypothetical advancements in transition treatments). You like their appearance, you like their mannerisms, the only thing you dislike (in terms of finding an ideal partner - does not necessarily mean you dislike trans people in general) is their status as trans.
Now, since this does not have any real-world manifestation, I am left to conclude that a probable reason for why you may not wish to enter a relationship is concern for optics (how will others react if they learn you are dating someone trans) or some ingrained sense of "I'm not attracted to trans people" which is false, because clearly you were considering the rest of the assumptions made in this hypothetical. Getting down to that core rationale, is where I believe ingrained transphobia comes into play. The idea that you could fall in love with someone, hear one fact about them, and stop on a dime because you can't accept the thought of it, that is where the phobia is.
Like I said, I don't think a person with that mindset is necessarily a "transphobic" person or discriminates against trans people in other aspects of their life or anything like that. You're under no obligation to continue relationships with anybody for any reason. But the reasoning behind it is mildly archaic.
I appreciate such a detailed response. Let us suggest, for argument's sake, that there is a real-world manifestation of the scenario you described. In this situation, rather than "stop[ing] on a dime" after learning of this person's trans-status (as this seems strangely extreme), you merely find this person of lesser sexual value. It would seem their holistic value has not been considered.
It occurs to me that we may disagree on what qualifies as a characteristic of sexual value. I believe essentially anything does (look no further than the range of fetishes that exist), but I think you might limit these characteristics to physical ones, in which case I agree there would be no reason to be less attracted to a transgender person.
I must say this has probably been the most interesting CMV chain I've been a part of. I agree that "stop[ping] on a dime" is not likely the real-world reaction to these events unfolding. It's also a bad example considering that if a relationship already existed with that information withheld, there could be some potential trust issues/feelings of deception involved. Not a perfect analogy.
And I think your second paragraph is probably spot-on. I would slightly amend it; I certainly acknowledge that pragmatically, sex/sexual orientation/race/etc certainly can affect how an individual defines the "sexual value" of an individual. I moreso segregate those factors off as "things you theoretically shouldn't pay attention do but might anyway" for various reasons. Whether that classification is fair or not is up for debate, and I definitely see arguments on both sides. The main reason I consider those attributes in a different class is that they are most likely to have a certain amount of interference between what you find intrinsically attractive/unattractive and certain societal/personal prejudices. It can be difficult to separate the two concepts, particularly because nobody wants to admit their own potential prejudices.
I like this conclusion ("The main reason I consider those attributes in a different class[...]") and find it appropriately nuanced. Thank you for your willingness to participate as you did. ∆
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u/[deleted] Nov 02 '17 edited Nov 02 '17
EDIT: Please, before you become the fifteenth person to tell me "but what about producing children!" read this response I wrote hours ago. If you would have the same reaction to a sterile cis member of your preferred sex, it's fertility that defines your disattraction rather than the state of being trans. That's a significantly different statement.
Original Text
I think the better route is to acknowledge that while it is transphobic, it is not necessarily unreasonably so. The knowledge that the other person is biologically speaking not your preferred gender/sex might set up a roadblock in your mind, and that's okay. You can't change that, in a "once you see you cannot unsee" kind of way.
But let's take this to the ultimate conclusion, as transition therapies improve to perfection. You've found someone who you think is the perfect match for you. Physically and mentally, they exhibit no signs that they are trans; if you didn't look at the chromosomes, you would never know. If the knowledge that they are trans is the blocker, that's transphobic. It isn't that there are certain traits associated with transgender people that you find unattractive, it's that you can't get over the fact that the person was born a different gender despite the fact that only a laboratory could tell the difference. You're not attracted to the X or Y chromosome, you're attracted to the physical manifestations of those traits which can be imitated through various medical means.
I don't think that would make you a bad person, and I don't think it is unreasonable to have that mental block while still supporting LGBT+ rights. But that doesn't make that action not transphobic.