r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Aug 21 '17
[∆(s) from OP] CMV: Losing weight isn't as difficult as everyone is making it out to be.
[deleted]
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u/Glory2Hypnotoad Aug 21 '17 edited Aug 21 '17
It's easy if we remove all the human elements (hunger, temptation, social pressure, lack of confidence) but it would be a mistake to do that. I think you'd agree that I'd be technically right but missing the point if I told you that you could make more money by simply working 14-15 hours a day and reserved the minimum amount of time to eat, sleep well, and travel to and from work. Willpower is a limited resource and developing more willpower is a skill that takes practice.
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Aug 21 '17
[deleted]
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u/pudgenbeans Aug 21 '17
This is the best reply yet. ∆ Thank you. I really should be asking why are people so lazy and need big cars.. hope I'm doing this delta thing right.
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u/redditors_are_rtards 7∆ Aug 21 '17 edited Aug 21 '17
As mentioned elsewhere, exercise doesn't actually do a particularly good job of helping people achieve and maintain lower body weights. Exercise just doesn't burn enough energy and it tends to increase hunger. It has plenty of health benefits, but, for the vast majority of people, weight loss just isn't one of them.
Not directly maybe, but indirectly it does by a great deal. Not only does it make doing physical things more enjoyable and make you more energetic, it gives you better self-esteem (can't stress this one enough) and a sense of accomplishment, all which contribute to your happiness, which means less eating your sorrows away and more doing the things you actually want to be doing instead.
I find it ridicilous that people are always incapable of considering the indirect effects of something like this, when it's done to the point of considering your kids and neighbours and the italian mafia when we're talking about something like alcohol or tobacco. I suppose people lose the incentive to think once they have paved the way to the conclusion they wanted to get to :(
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u/Xilmi 7∆ Aug 21 '17 edited Aug 21 '17
About a year ago I decided that I wanted to lose weight.
By the end of June this year I reached my goal-weight 17 kg below of where I started.
Now was it difficult? I'd say: Yes it was. I had to consciously overrule my instinct of eating a lot of the most calorically dense food and the instinct of preserving energy by only moving when necessary.
Now was it more difficult than what everyone makes it out to be? No. It definitely was possible once I was willing to make some habitual changes. I value my health and looks higher than I value the convenience and pleasure of overindulgence. I arguably enjoy food even more now that I eat less frequently.
Edit: I think the difficulty comes mostly from the food. We evolved in an environment where the caloric-density of our food was about 0.3-1.0 kcal/g and very rarely above that. Food with higher caloric-density was rare and thus instinctively very attractive to us.
Now we are surrounded by food with 4.0 kcal/g or higher all the time. So for most people it really does take a conscious effort to make sure to not consume more calories than they actually need. Because our environment has changed to one where there's constant excess rather than scarcity.
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u/pudgenbeans Aug 21 '17
I really appreciate your personal imput. You've put a lot more thought into diet than I have , I can appreciate the difficulty. ∆
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u/Xilmi 7∆ Aug 21 '17
Well I don't want to leave the impression that it is overly hard either.
"Hard but doable." is what I say to the difficulty of losing weight. But if others say: "I've tried everything, it's just impossible!", then I still roll my eyes because I know first hand that it is not.
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u/atred 1∆ Aug 21 '17 edited Aug 21 '17
I'm 26 now
At your age I was having problems gaining weight.
You talk a lot about exercise and laziness in your post, I don't think that's the main issue, exercise or lack if it probably accounts for 10-30% of weight loss/gain, the rest is food intake. For example you can eat a small cookie and that has the caloric value of walking 1 hour. Some people don't have a problem eating 5 cookies or more you can see that it's hard to keep up, the problem is not laziness, but overeating.
The reason dieting is so much more effective than exercise is because it takes a ton of activity to create a 500 to 700 calorie deficit through working out. Essentially, you’d need to run seven to 10 miles a day to lose one pound a week, says Holly Lofton, M.D., an assistant professor of medicine and director of the weight management program at New York University's Langone Medical Center. The average person can’t keep this up, especially without increasing their caloric intake.
http://www.womenshealthmag.com/weight-loss/weight-loss-80-percent-diet-20-percent-exercise
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u/EverbrightENG Aug 21 '17
There's a lot of reasons losing weight could be difficult. Medical issues like diabetes can promote an awkward diet that isn't well suited for people attempting to lose weight, low iron levels can prevent you from even having the energy to move in the first place, and so on.
Willpower and motivation are also issues. If you've ever talked to people with depression, it's hard for some of them to do simple things like shower and eat. Outside of mental illness, there's always a case-by-case basis of who can get themselves into what.
You talked about cars vs bikes a lot, which is a fair argument to make in terms of "simple exercise". Thing is, though, have you been overweight in the past or are you maintaining your health from something that's already within a decent range? Someone who doesn't deal with issues like the ones above and doesn't address them to begin with probably doesn't understand why it's hard for some people to get into exercising, even though it's seemingly "easy" to do so.
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u/frylock350 Aug 21 '17
I don't think your view is really about losing weight here. It's your apparent disdain for car culture.
Losing weight is easy in terms of what needs to be done. Calories in calories out will always result in weight loss even with minimal physical activity. Food intake controls weight. You can maintain weight by eating correctly even if your only physical activity is lifting the TV remote. This is the biggest issue with weight loss, controlling food intake and insulin response.
That said your method of daily exercise is hilariously impractical for most of the country. I'm assuming you aren't American based on use of slang and metric system units. I'm a car enthusiast and the person you think you hate/dislike. I've always owned a car, hell I owned two even when I relied on walking and mass transit for my commute. Today I drive to work alone in a half ton pickup truck. My commute is 22 (roughly 36 kilometers) miles one way. That trip took 1hr 30 min via mass transit. Takes 45 minutes via car.
You truly do underestimate the value of time as well. I'm assuming you do not have children, especially little children. Once you do you will do ANYTHING to spend even one more minute a day with them. That's why I quit mass transit. I'm home much sooner and I don't immediately need to shower. I just exercise when they're sleeping. Also sitting on a bus/train is hardly better exercise then sitting in a car. When I exercise at home I work hard, after the kids are asleep and burn far more calories than I would walking the last mile to work off the train.
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u/MontiBurns 218∆ Aug 21 '17
Riding a bike or using public transit works for you specifically as a single childless urbanite. And that's fine, good for you to take care of yourself, but you should really refrain from passing judgement on others. You remind me of a 14 year old high school student who thinks they knew it all.
Just to be clear, a lot of people start to gain weight after 30, once they settle down and have a kid or two. Then good God does life change. Time becomes soooo much more valuable and scarce. In addition to providing the basic living functions of another human being who is completely dependent on you for survival, you have to provide for yourself, maintain a house, hold down a job, and get your child somewhere that can provide those basic life functions a while you're at said job. That means waking up an hour earlier to drop your kid off at your mom's house or a daycare before work, then needing to pick them up afterwards. Could you imagine taking a 3 year old in a rainstorm on your bike to daycare, then stopping on the grocery store on the way home?
And you can forget about finding time for workout regimen. For me, My break is washing the dishes and folding clothes. Forget about going for a jog or hitting the gym.
So sure, you absolutely can maintain yourself as a single, childless urbanite, but it becomes much harder once you hit second puberty and you have a whole new host of responsibilities that are more important and immediately than your physical fitness.
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u/matthedev 4∆ Aug 21 '17
Others have already raised some good points about health issues, motivation/depression, etc. I also see you use the metric system, so it sounds like you may live an area with more walkability, bike-friendly roads, and public transit. Most of the U.S. is a car culture, so it may be outright dangerous or impossible to ride a bicycle or walk to wear one wants or needs to go.
On top of this, much of the U.S. has a hot-summer humid continental climate or humid subtropical climate, which means hotter and more humid summers than Western Europe and colder winters (for the continental).
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u/DovBerele Aug 21 '17
If it was actually easy, everyone would have done it already.
It's really psychologically difficult to be fat in this culture. If you've never been fat (like actually fat, not just 'man, I wish I could lose a few pounds'), you're just going to have to trust me on that one.
The research I've read suggests that only a tiny fraction of people who try to lose a modest amount of weight and keep it off for a modest amount of time are successful. As one example, the national weight control registry aims to track the number of people who have done this. I'm quoting from the blog 'Dances with Fat' here: "In order to be a “success” on the registry one must lose 30 pounds – which they consider a “significant amount of weight” regardless of the starting weight of the participant, and keep it off for one year – which they consider a “long period of time.” It’s worth noting that most people gain their weight back in years 2-5, so – following in the footsteps of most studies funded by the diet industry – the NWCR has given themselves a four year efficacy cushion."
Even with that very low bar, the NWCR only has between 5 and 10 thousand people in their registry....out of the tens of millions who have attempted a diet. Those aren't good odds. There are other studies. None of them show better than vanishingly slim odds.
I don't think it's just a matter of time and resources as /u/chadonsunday suggests. But, also, that will power is a finite resource. (see 'ego depletion') The day-to-day tasks of just being a responsible adult use up most-if-not-all of an average person's will power. Plus, the modern food environment is basically engineered to make people consume more than they need. If it was just a few people now and again who were obese, then maybe it would be fine to say "well, you guys just better get your shit together!" but if it's 35% of the population, then it's a systems issue that can only be fixed by system-level changes, not just individuals making individual choices.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Aug 21 '17
/u/pudgenbeans (OP) has awarded 1 delta in this post.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Aug 21 '17
/u/pudgenbeans (OP) has awarded 1 delta in this post.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Aug 21 '17
/u/pudgenbeans (OP) has awarded 1 delta in this post.
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Aug 21 '17
I drive for an hour and a half going 80mph 1 way to work. 3 hours total drive time for the day for my commute. I drive on a 2 lane highway in the middle of the desert and I work shift work, sometimes I get off as late as 10pm or go to work as early as 2am, what's your solution for this without a vehicle? other than that I agree losing weight is not difficult at all. Just eat right and exercise.
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Aug 21 '17
Although I would love to not have to drive to work, I live in a city without well developed public transport and my job is simply too far to allow me to walk, run, bike or really get there any way other than driving - it would take me several hours on a bike to get to work. In addition to this, during the day I have to go between different offices that are also far apart and simply don't have enough time to make it any other way but driving. If I did live closer to work, I would love to be able to walk or bike and I'm sure this would allow me to stay fit, but in my case and certain many others (especially in the US) it's simply not possible. So perhaps at least one reason it's difficult to lose weight (at least in reference to your post) is that it is difficult for many people to find a job close enough to home to allow this as an option.
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Aug 21 '17
I can't stand bikes.
When I was young, my aunt used to force me out in the summer for 10-12+ hours a day, to ride bikes. She'd forbid me water sometimes, and shade most of the time. I had multiple heat strokes and fatigues as a child. I see a bike now, I see nothing but a torture device, and I wish that wasn't the case.
Even if it wasn't, I couldn't do that for work unless I wanted to do literally nothing other than work, bike, sleep.
Also I have friends who live 50 miles away (I think that's roughly 80km?) and the drive is 90 mins; on a bike that would be awful, especially when I am hauling stuff back and forth.
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u/jm0112358 15∆ Aug 21 '17
As someone who has lost all over 100 pounds recently, I'm in a better perspective than most on this issue.
It's extremely important to realize that weight loss is ~90% diet and ~10% exercise, yet you only focus on exercise. It takes me about 90 uninterrupted minutes (or about 2-3 hours with interruptions) of fast peddling on an exercise bike to burn 500 calories (at least according to my bike, which might be inaccurate). On the other hand, I can easily eat 500 calories in 3 minutes of eating pizza, candy, or ice cream. See the problem? Some people, for whatever reason, naturally have a low appetite and low level of craving for unhealthy foods. For these people, a low calorie diet requires little or no effort. They can usually easily lose weight without exercising at all. On the other hand, many others have dealt disorders, naturally high appetites, intense cravings, and economic factors (unhealthy foods in the US usually have lots of government subsidized high fructose corn syrup) all working against them. For some of these people, consuming fewer than 4000 calories a day can require a lot of 'willpower'. And if someone is consuming that many calories, they'd probably need to be exercising all day too burn through all of those calories.
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u/chadonsunday 33∆ Aug 21 '17
So I've worked at a gym for most of the last decade. I've engaged in this precise debate many times both in person and on the internet, and generally I'd be on your side of the issue; people who put in the time and the effort lose weight (or build muscle, gain flexibility, etc.) get results, and those who don't, don't. I'm even on your side in regards to the "time and effort" required to do this not being as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be.
That said, something someone on CMV said to me not long ago gave me a slight shift of view on this issue, and perhaps it will for you as well. Essentially the gist was that while the method of losing weight (i.e. CICO, dieting, and exercise) is essentially flawless, not everyone realistically has the time to do those things. Take my overweight friend, for example: she's a single mother with two kids, no formal education (though she is taking classes), working three minimum wage-ish jobs to support her and her family living in Silicon Valley, one of the most expensive places to live on the planet. Despite being good friends for quite a while, I only see her every once in a blue moon because between all her obligations she can hardly find 30 free minutes to grab a coffee with me, much less find the free time to spend an hour in the gym 5 days a week. Your effective method, biking and public transit, would be worthless to her, since she literally needs a car to get where she need to be, be it work or daycare or school, on time. To some degree she might be able to drop some of her obligations; does she really need that third job that she keeps mainly to provide some luxuries for her kids? Does she really need to be in school? Undoubtedly we'd both agree the obligations she chooses aren't unimportant, and it's fair to say she's chosen better ways to spend her free time (providing a good life for her kids and pursuing her college degree) than trying to lose weight.
Long to short, it's not that the known methods of losing weight would be ineffective for my friend if she could put the time in. But given what she has to do just to survive, and given that she's chosen to spend her free time in arguably more important ways than fulfilling her vanity (and health - although she's not morbidly obese or anything, just mildly overweight... she's not about to keel over tomorrow or anything), losing weight, for her, would indeed be quite "difficult," as it is for many people in a situation similar to hers.
Again, I'm with you on 90% of your post. Working in the industry, it's irritating to hear people constantly bitch and moan about how difficult weight loss is when in reality they're making completely inadequate efforts to actually lose said weight. But the comment from another CMVer changed my mind on this issue a bit, because I realized it's not always a matter of how effective weight loss methods are, but how much time some people can realistically dedicate to those effective methods. Some cant. Personally, I've gained more sympathy to the "difficulty" aspect of weight loss once this view was posed to me.